Flattening waterstones--questions/need help

[Bladenoobie1]

Hi,

I've been using 320 3M silicon carbide wet dry sand paper over a granite tile to flatten my waterstones. Of recent though, I have come across a few issues. For one the sandpaper cuts slowely--but that is expected as it wears out. But on a larger issue its not even cutting my 500 grit glass. I feel that the particles from the 1000 or 4000 stone left on the sandpaper is being imbeded into the 500 grit surface as after an attempt at lapping yesterday (my stone being slightly dished) the surrounding edges of the stone became somewhat polished and those portions are no longer cutting steel as well.

That aside, I feel that I need a dedicated diamond stone for me to flatten and refinish my waterstones as the sandpaper, though once marginally effective, is only giving me issues now. I am considering a DMT extra coarse or extra-extra coarse. Would an extra course be enough to flatten my stones (500 grit and above) or would the extra-extra coarse be noticibly better? The reason I ask is that the extra-extra coarse is relatively expensive. I know you can also buy atoma plates and other various diamond hones by Japanese companies, but I can't afford to drop 100, 200+ dollars to lap my stones. One other concern is read is the DMT stones not being perfectly flat. Will this be of any issue?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm rather frustrated with the sandpaper and the dished center of my 500 stone is preventing me from getting clean even bevels.

- BN

 

[HwangJino]

I use to do sandpaper as well.

it works but you need to use new paper for different grits.


in the end, its better to improve your technique, ive had old head chefs tell me to flatten the stone with my knife and the stone will always be flat and knife always sharp.

 

[ebrguy]

Try some 120 drywall screen. Use it as you would the sandpaper.

I use a DMT XXC 3" x 8" for flattening my stones. It works fine it seems more than flat enough for the job to me. If it ever wears out on me though I will get and Atoma 140 to replace it. (I should have got the Atoma to begin with. )

 

[Jason B.]

CKTG has a low cost diamond plate they sell just for lapping waterstones.

Keeping a stone flat by grinding in different areas sounds good on paper but fails in reality.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

CKTG has a low cost diamond plate they sell just for lapping waterstones.

Keeping a stone flat by grinding in different areas sounds good on paper but fails in reality.

I did see that plate. So that plate would be sufficient in keeping the stones relatively flat? It said in a disclaimer that it has imperfections and if you are looking for a flatter stone go for DMT or atoma. Would those imperfections affect things at the higher grit, or for me 4k and in the future 8k? Or would the low cost diamond plate meet my needs?

 

[stitchawl]

Why not save $25 and just use the cement sidewalk in front of your house? If you really need to spend money, buy a 12" cement paver from your local home center. Your stones will be flat and the paver will last forever.


Stitchawl

 

[Bladenoobie1]

Why not save $25 and just use the cement sidewalk in front of your house? If you really need to spend money, buy a 12" cement paver from your local home center. Your stones will be flat and the paver will last forever.


Stitchawl

While that may work for an old india stone, I'm not sure that the cement sidewalk will be abrading the ceramic glass stones which are rather hard. In addition to ending up with a finish less than desired.

 

[Jason B.]

It should work fine but I would recommend a cheap diamond hone in a fine grit for finer waterstones, such as those found a harbor freight. You want a smoother surface on the higher grits for better feedback.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

It should work fine but I would recommend a cheap diamond hone in a fine grit for finer waterstones, such as those found a harbor freight. You want a smoother surface on the higher grits for better feedback.

So would the cheaper 140 grit one at CKTG be suitable for all of my current stones? 500, 1k, 4k? Or in addition to a 140 grit will I need a finer diamond stone too?

 

[HwangJino]

The reality is my stones are flat and I dont use anything other than a knife and onxe a while a nagura to cretmate a slurry.

Mor3 experienced sharpeners that I know say flatteners are for beginners, starting to see this.

 

[Jason B.]

The reality is my stones are flat and I dont use anything other than a knife and onxe a while a nagura to cretmate a slurry.

Mor3 experienced sharpeners that I know say flatteners are for beginners, starting to see this.

It's good you think they are flat. Me, beng a professional sharpener specializing in Japanese cutlery sharpening more knives in a day than most do in a year and wearing out more stones every 3 months than most do in two lifetimes gives me a slight advantage in understanding what happens with lots of use. I work the whole stone to prevent excessive dishing but you simply can't work every spot with equal pressure so the wear rate will never be the same. Being a sushi chef does not make you a pro sharpener BTW.

 

[HwangJino]

No but dont tell people they cannot flatten a stone with a knife, MANY MANY do did it before diamond flatteners were available.

if a novice needs a few hundred dollar flattener, I think they could lwarn free technique instead

 

[pjwoolw]

I suppose its possible so use a stone in a fashion that would keep is relatively flat. But if you do this for a living there is just no time to do so. At the moment I use my well worn XXC DMT. Pretty soon I'll go the way of the Atoma 140. The 600 Atoma plate I have works very well but I hate to use it for flattening.

 

[Bladenoobie1]

If possible, lets keep this thread on track. I understand everyone has different opinions, but I much prefer it if the posts in the thread answers my questions as opposed to answering someone's claim.

Still have the same question:

It should work fine but I would recommend a cheap diamond hone in a fine grit for finer waterstones, such as those found a harbor freight. You want a smoother surface on the higher grits for better feedback.

So would the cheaper 140 grit one at CKTG be suitable for all of my current stones? 500, 1k, 4k? Or in addition to a 140 grit will I need a finer diamond stone too?

 

[ksskss]

Keeping a stone flat by selectively using the stone surface to even out wear will keep your stone flatter - but not flat. Even doing this you should flatten with a diamond plate. My preference for general flattening is Atoma 140 then DMT XXC as a second choice. Finer diamond plates give a more appropriate texture but first you need it flat and these two are the way to go. Personally I really dislike sidewalks for flattening - massive grit contamination. Perhaps there are better sidewalks out there than what I've run into but I don't recommend sidewalks at all. You can flatten stones with other stones. If you are a purist you use 3 stones flattening a to b, b to c, then a to c, especially when flattening the flattening stone. With the advent of diamond plates this techniques are now only useful for me on extremely coarse stones.

There are those that ignore flattening completely. I hardly consider not flattening stones a mark of expertise.

---
Ken

 

[bgentry]

Anyone have experience flattening very coarse stones? I'd like to flatten my Nubatama bamboo 150, but I'm reluctant to use my DMT XXC on it, as they are so similar in grit and the 150 is so hard. Should I get some sort of lapidary compound and a granite tile or slab?

Thanks,

Brian.

 

[HeavyHanded]

My two cents - it is possible to keep a stone reasonably flat by working the entire surface. If you are a professional, or if the demands of a given project are such that you need absolute flat, you WILL NEED some form of flattening stone. I don't use one myself, but then I'm not sharpening larger high end cutlery. IMHO one should attempt to keep the stone flat by working it for a couple of very good reasons. It will prolong the life of the stone considerably. When used on whatever stone you have (oil, diamond, water, sandpaper) it spreads the swarf around the stone and allows you to work on "clean" stone surfaces longer without rinsing, wiping, agitating the oil etc, this will produce noticeably better grinding action. This will also add considerable life to sandpaper and prevent the waterstone from dishing during the course of sharpening edges with a pronounced belly. On Crystalon or other SIC stones, it can prevent them from appreciably dishing indefinitely.

For a dedicated lapping stone, Home Depot sells a rubbing stone in the tile supply isle for 8 bucks or so - looks like a gnarly combination stone and works well for all your lapping needs. They don't shed grit into the stone as you work (following an initial rinse), and are spec's for cleaning up the cracked/cut ends of tiles and for refreshing glazed diamond cutting tools - it'll flatten your waterstone.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Anyone have experience flattening very coarse stones? I'd like to flatten my Nubatama bamboo 150, but I'm reluctant to use my DMT XXC on it, as they are so similar in grit and the 150 is so hard. Should I get some sort of lapidary compound and a granite tile or slab?

Thanks,

Brian.

120 grit lapidary SiC powder and the above mentioned HD stone can do a job on any stone, even makes fairly short work of Arkansas stones, old combination stones etc. The SIC grit breaks down the longer you use it without adding more, a blob of dishsoap will help keep the mud from washing/falling off as you work.

 

[Magnaminous_G]

No but dont tell people they cannot flatten a stone with a knife, MANY MANY do did it before diamond flatteners were available.

if a novice needs a few hundred dollar flattener, I think they could lwarn free technique instead

You cannot flatten a stone with a knife.

 

[Jason B.]

If possible, lets keep this thread on track. I understand everyone has different opinions, but I much prefer it if the posts in the thread answers my questions as opposed to answering someone's claim. Still have the same question:So would the cheaper 140 grit one at CKTG be suitable for all of my current stones? 500, 1k, 4k? Or in addition to a 140 grit will I need a finer diamond stone too?

In addition its good to have a finer diamond for your 4k. That tile rubbing stone HH talks about might be a good option over a coarse diamond plate.