Flipping the 0561.

freewheeling

freewheeling

Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
975
I'm getting so that I can flip the ZT 056 open pretty reliably, but only if a concentrate on placing my fingers precisely. Any attempt to put pressure on the clip (on the point end so it almost touches the lock bar) or inadvertently touching the lock bar itself, and it fails to open. On the other hand if I use the tumb stud it wracks open every time with a loud click. Which makes me wonder whether I'm flipping it right. Holding the knife so that I can flip it is pretty awkward. The best grip is to hold the clip on the outside with my pinky finger only and roll the ring finger on the high side of the clip (away from the lock bar), keeping the middle finger just below the pivot and sort of curling my thumb a little on the scale side.

I'm sure there's a better way to do this, so wonder if people have any tips on technique. I'm almost to the point of thinking that frame locks are not the right way to go for flippers, and that a liner lock is much better. Then again, I've got no trouble using the thumb stud other than a little arthritis which makes it less fun. That's the main reason I wanted to use the flipper, so I don't wear out my thumb, or just to have an alternate means of getting the knife open if the arthritis gets worse.

(BTW, I have a little CRKT Eros that I have no problem flipping open and the same with a couple of Zing tantos. The Skyline drags a little, but not too bad. Maybe the deal with the ZT is that the detente just isn't very strong so all the snap has to come from my finger which I keep whacking on the jimping.)
 
Apologize for the sync problems, but you get the idea.

[video=youtube;6HaED79sWH8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HaED79sWH8&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
I find it makes a big difference if you hold it with the blade facing down and let the weight of the blade do some of the work.
 
spketch said:
I find it makes a big difference if you hold it with the blade facing down and let the weight of the blade do some of the work.
Click to expand...

Well, but I'm starting to wonder if having a flipper with a frame lock is really sort of a bad design (at least in a big knife). Obviously I can do it, but I have to get my fingers into that very strange configuration that's not at all intuitive. On the other hand the thumb stud works very well for me. It's just that it bothers me not to be able to flip it without contortion.

Update: And I really don't even mean that. The flipper after it's deployed protects the fingers and hand very well, so it might as well be there. I just wondered if there's a technique others use that I might try.
 
Looks like you are pushing the flipper downward along the spine. Instead push down on the top of the flipper as if you are pushing into the back of the handle instead of parallel to the handle, the energy should be going toward the blade not down the spine.
 
Flipping is a misnomer to some extent. I am right-handed. When it comes to the action of my index finger I am pushing directly into the flipper with my index finger as if I could push it right thru the handle of the Hinderer ZT 561. I use this technique regardless of whether the blade flips sideways, up or down.

Looking at the closed folder from the non-clip side with flipper up draw an imaginary line from the top of the flipper thru the thumb stud and this is the direction you push (not flip) your index finger. The blade flips open but you are pushing.

If you are draging your index finger along the sharp jimping on the spine of the handle after the blade flips open you are not pushing properly, using my technique IMHO. Your mileage may vary depending on hand strength, finger size, how broken in your knife is and pivot pin setting.


link to video of me pushing open the 561: http://youtu.be/I9UexsSW5N4 CLICK THAT


2shot beat me to it!
 
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Once the knife is run in a bit, the blade should fly open with the flipper and with minimal effort. IMO, the studs stink on this knife and I read somewhere that if ZT had it to do over again they'd have left them off. They are more like blade stops than anything, to me.

This a great knife made all the better by the flipper and the KVT pivot system. Mine is now as smooth as silk and effortless to open. If I had to rely on the difficult to use studs, it wouldn't be nearly as good.
 
The point of a flipper action is to make the opening of the knife more efficient in the energy transfer from the user to action of opening the knife.
Thumbstuds are inefficient as they often require you to hold the knife firmly, and then requires additional force (often dowards force to dig into the thumbstud).

A flipper is a universal way that just about transfer all of the energy into the action. But like all mechanical designs, they must be used properly.

A flipper should be utilized in the same but opposing manner. Whether it's a flipper to make something spin, or slide, or get it out of position. In this case, it's to make the blade spin on it's pivot into locking position.
Your finger movement should also be a downwards flick, parallel to the handles not perpendicular since the knife needs to go up.
 
Four different useful how to flip videos on the first page OMG. What a helpful forum. WTG members.
 
Sorry, but these threads almost get painful to read. :)

If you are doing it right, flipper or thumb studs, the orientation of the knife doesn't matter, it should pop with a solid click. Similarly, good technique can help make up for a weak or strong detent.
The instructions I've read so far have been partially right.

Pre-loading is critical, this followed by the proper change of direction will open the knife with the solid click you want.

To do this apply pressure to the tip of the flipper perpendicular with the long axis of the knife, (as was mentioned, like you are trying to push the flipper straight into the handle). If you are pushing in the right direction, the blade should not move at all. At this point while still applying pressure, change directions and basically pull the flipper parallel to the long axis of the knife, as if you are trying to rotate it into the handle. The blade should open pretty quickly. I've found that doing it this way, the blade will open even if I accidentally rest my fingers on the lock bar.
Using this technique I can open the knife in a few different grips, including with my thumb and other parts of my index finger besides the tip.

Edit: 2 shot posted before I finished typing. His linked video is a great illustration of what I was talking about.
 
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THANKS GUYS! I had some vague idea that I might not be doing it correctly so thought I'd post the question. You really came through! I don't know why that technique of pushing the flipper first never occurred to me, but it just never did.

Great!

BTW, I think one of the reasons I got into pulling parallel to the knife is that the Ken Onion CRKT knife that I have actually has the jimping on the front of the flipper which implies that you pull toward the butt-end. It works very well on the Eros, but I suppose the jimping is really meant for the second part and I could use this push technique on the Eros too. I found that I could use this same technique on a couple of Zings that I have, basically because they have a very strong detente (like the Eros) which allows me to "load" without pushing. With the push-rotate sort of technique the detente isn't nearly as critical.
 
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kneedeep said:
Sorry, but these threads almost get painful to read. :)

If you are doing it right, flipper or thumb studs, the orientation of the knife doesn't matter, it should pop with a solid click. Similarly, good technique can help make up for a weak or strong detent.
The instructions I've read so far have been partially right.

Pre-loading is critical, this followed by the proper change of direction will open the knife with the solid click you want.

To do this apply pressure to the tip of the flipper perpendicular with the long axis of the knife, (as was mentioned, like you are trying to push the flipper straight into the handle). If you are pushing in the right direction, the blade should not move at all. At this point while still applying pressure, change directions and basically pull the flipper parallel to the long axis of the knife, as if you are trying to rotate it into the handle. The blade should open pretty quickly. I've found that doing it this way, the blade will open even if I accidentally rest my fingers on the lock bar.
Using this technique I can open the knife in a few different grips, including with my thumb and other parts of my index finger besides the tip.

Edit: 2 shot posted before I finished typing. His linked video is a great illustration of what I was talking about.
Click to expand...

+1 on this. Solid pre load plus quick force direction change equals sure deployment every time, thumb stud or flipper. The easiest way to grasp the concept is comparing it to snapping your fingers.
 
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I doubt it has to do with the pivot, consider that it uses a ball bearing system, and he has no trouble with the thumb stud deployment.

My method of using a flipper protrusion is a bit different than what seems to be consensus here, but it's the most sure way I've come across. Haven't had a "bad deployment" yet, and it's quicker/easier than the two step thing of build-up and release. I'll try to make a video about it this weekend. Perhaps it'll help some folks.

And thanks Knotty for posting my video. :D
 
sticktodrum said:
I doubt it has to do with the pivot, consider that it uses a ball bearing system, and he has no trouble with the thumb stud deployment.

My method of using a flipper protrusion is a bit different than what seems to be consensus here, but it's the most sure way I've come across. Haven't had a "bad deployment" yet, and it's quicker/easier than the two step thing of build-up and release. I'll try to make a video about it this weekend. Perhaps it'll help some folks.

And thanks Knotty for posting my video. :D
Click to expand...

I'm still not very good at this. Sometimes I hit just right and it flies open, but usually comes out pretty softly. I can hear a soft scraping sound as well which is probably the detente on the blade. Loosening the pivot doesn't do very much to change the scraping sound, it just off-centers the blade a little. I notice that the shapie stuff has worn off. Maybe I'll up some more of that on the tang.

I think it's just technique and to a certain extent my "finger biceps". I seem to be gradually getting better at it. I also have a Skyline and have been practicing the flip on that. The two-stage "push & roll* I call it, works pretty well on that. It doesn't work at all on my CRKT. Pushing just seems to tighten the detente which is already enormously strong so the blade won't open at all. For that one I just use the jimping and actually pull back and a little bit up even. I have some Zings, some wiith strong and some weak detente. The strong detentes work much better but I'm getting so I can open the weak one with the "push & roll." Different strokes, as they say.

BTW, for some reason it's easier to open my CRKT with my left hand. I practice a little with left-handed open because it's good joint therapy and you never know which hand you'll be using in an emergency.
 
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