Flipping the 0561.

Have been practicing and just as with my CRKT for some reason it's easier to use my left hand than my right. I'm also a bit worried that the detente on mine is too weak. Is there some sort of objective scale I can use to check the detente strength? It's not very easy to "shake" with the blade down to get it deployed, at least not nearly as easy as it is with my de-assisted Blur. But the detente on my Blur is very soft. It seems harder for me to get the hang of this than most of the people I've seen online, even the ones who are clearly doing it the wrong way.
 
Calling what we described two steps is a bit of an exaggeration. It is just easier to explain what is actually happening that way. If you are doing it right, it is one smooth continuous motion. As I mentioned, I don't even need to use the tip of my index finger. I can just wrap my hand around the knife and use the middle segment of my index finger.
 
Luis G. said:
The point of a flipper action is to make the opening of the knife more efficient in the energy transfer from the user to action of opening the knife.
Thumbstuds are inefficient as they often require you to hold the knife firmly, and then requires additional force (often dowards force to dig into the thumbstud).

A flipper is a universal way that just about transfer all of the energy into the action. But like all mechanical designs, they must be used properly.

A flipper should be utilized in the same but opposing manner. Whether it's a flipper to make something spin, or slide, or get it out of position. In this case, it's to make the blade spin on it's pivot into locking position.
Your finger movement should also be a downwards flick, parallel to the handles not perpendicular since the knife needs to go up.
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I just re-read this, and I think the engineering concept of "precession" is relevant here. The most efficient application of force is at 90 degrees to the resultant. For instance, a baseball pitcher who intends to throw a fastball horizontal to the ground lets go of the ball when his hand is at the top of the arc. If he held onto the ball until his arm was horizontal to the ground, which is the direction he wishes to throw the ball, it would fly directly into the ground and stop. So it makes sense that the most efficient and effective way to get the blade to a position parallel with the handle of the knife is to apply pressure more or less perpendicular to the axis of the handle. It's as though you intend to "throw" the point of the blade forward so that even if your finger traces an arc you want to release in a direction toward the ground (assuming the knife is pointed forward parallel to the ground).
 
Go throw a baseball and you will see you let go when your arm it is parallel to the ground.
 
2 shot said:
Go throw a baseball and you will see you let go when your arm it is parallel to the ground.
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You should throw something right now, and tell me if your arm went in a radius or straight.

I think he's referring to how you hold the ball and throw the ball. The method in which you hold it, is to keep pressure perpendicular to the trajectory.
When you let go of the ball your hand will be perpendicular to the ground. If you release just as your arm is parellel, it will likely dive downwards due to your arms natural pivoting (shoulder).

Anyways I am not so sure if the baseball example really matches what a flipper in knives does. A flipper acts more as a more efficient "point of leverage".
I think the baseball throwing tactic used by pro's has more to do with control than efficiency.
 
2 shot said:
Go throw a baseball and you will see you let go when your arm it is parallel to the ground.
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Betcha. Will see if I can find a stop-action, but the laws of physics say that the release point has to be at 90 degrees to the resultant. If you released the ball with your arm parellel to the ground you'll throw it directly at the ground in front of your feet. The principle is called precession. Precession is the reason gyroscopes work. Follow-thru is what deceives people into thinking otherwise.

I thought you were the one who advised pushing on the flipper?

It might be easier to visualize with a football since you have to actually concentrate on creating spin at the top of the arc to get the ball traveling forward and spinning like a gyroscope in order to stabilize the tumble.
 
OK, I can't find anything on the www that makes it unambiguous, because it's probably a subject for eggheads. But the author of this wiki description of the curveball clearly believes that the ball is released at the top of the arc. Where he's mistaken is in thinking that the curveball is unique in this respect. It's all a matter of what spin the pitcher is putting on the ball, but it's always applied at 90 degrees to the resultant (allowing some variation for the effects of gravity and friction). The whole point of the knuckle ball is to put no spin on the ball so you don't have any flick at the top of the arc. Not that I was a very good pitcher, or could throw a knuckleball to save my A$$.
 
Of course there is an arc involved. I will admit I have never though about or studied the physics of throwing a ball and really don't know much about it. But when I throw a ball it feels like it rolls off of my fingers when they are pointed at the target not 90 degrees before.
 
sticktodrum said:
My method of using a flipper protrusion is a bit different than what seems to be consensus here, but it's the most sure way I've come across. Haven't had a "bad deployment" yet, and it's quicker/easier than the two step thing of build-up and release. I'll try to make a video about it this weekend. Perhaps it'll help some folks.
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I heard you made that video, but I haven't seen it yet on your channel.
 
2 shot said:
Of course there is an arc involved. I will admit I have never though about or studied the physics of throwing a ball and really don't know much about it. But when I throw a ball it feels like it rolls off of my fingers when they are pointed at the target not 90 degrees before.
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Well, that's probably your good training kicking in... with the follow-through and all. Physicists are lousy pitchers. I don't think the guy who explained this to me could've pitched his way out of a paper bag. (Actually, he was an engineer not a physicist, but same difference.)
 
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I have a user 560 and a nib 561 I can flip the user any way u want and it will fly open but the nib 561 not the some case I have to focus on making sure I hold it just right or add some wrist movement into the action.
 
asm3686 said:
I have a user 560 and a nib 561 I can flip the user any way u want and it will fly open but the nib 561 not the some case I have to focus on making sure I hold it just right or add some wrist movement into the action.
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As I understand it, no two knives have exactly the same detente setting so on some knives you can get away with a bad method and the detente makes up for it. On others, it's a learning curve. I had a lot of problems opening mine reliably at first but it's getting better. Either my method and coordination is getting better, or the knife is breaking it. Meanwhile that Southard I've been comparing it to, has developed problems.

I noticed that 2 shot says he used both methods, so I tried using the flipper and the thumb stud at the same time, and he must be REALLY COORDINATED! Either my thumb gets in the way of my finger or my finger gets in the way of my thumb. He should make a video how he does that.
 
freewheeling said:
I noticed that 2 shot says he used both methods, so I tried using the flipper and the thumb stud at the same time, and he must be REALLY COORDINATED! Either my thumb gets in the way of my finger or my finger gets in the way of my thumb. He should make a video how he does that.
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LOL..I don't remember how I said what you said I said. But the truth is I have a difficult time getting the thought in my brain, through my fingers and on to the screen in a manner that makes sense. It is frustrating to say the least. I am a pretty witty guy but the humor doesn't come across very well in print. The only time my fingers get a laugh is during fore-play, not a good thing for sure.

So what I meant with flipping the 0560 using both the flipper and the thumb studs/stop pins is either method works for me but one method at a time. I am not surprised you read it differently.
 
i am starting to believe that my 561 may just need flipped more my 560 is and has been a user while the 561 sits in the safe
 
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