Florida knife laws help.

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Killtation

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Apr 3, 2013
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Hey guys. I'm new here. I'm a huge fan of blades and can tell this community will be a fun place to hang out.

I live in Florida.... the knife laws here are vague... frustratingly vague. I had a couple questions i was hoping you guys could help me with.

Info: 18 years old, no CCW yet, no probation or anything. I carry a knife on me for EDC which is a combo tactical black tanto blade of 4" with a flipper and spring assist mechanism, linerlock, glassbreaker, and seatbelt cutter. I use this for both utility and self defense but i would like a nice Karambit for self defense so i can use my other as just a tool.

1. Under Florida law is a Karambit considered a "common pocketknife" if it is not automatic and has less than a 4" blade? Also would a Balisong be legal to carry if it has a bladelength of less than 4"?

2. This is a pretty specific question.... i just got hired at McDonalds today and i was curious if the employees are allowed to carry a common pocketknife with them during their shifts.


I know the second question is a bit specific but hopefully one of you can help. I spent some time googling it but couldn't find anything......... or overlooked everything, who knows?

Thanks for any assistance, guys.
 
First, I'm no lawyer and I'm no expert on Florida law. But I have heard from several people who live in Florida and here is what they say.

Don't carry any knife that looks like it was designed to be a weapon. In my opinion, the knife you're carrying now will scream WEAPON to a cop, prosecuter, and jury. Remenber, how you perceive your knife means nothing. What matters is how the people with the badges, guns, handcuffs, and the power to lock you in a jail cell perceive your knife.

A karambit is specifically designed as a weapon and many cops know what they are. I think you would have a very difficult time trying to convince anyone that you were carrying a karambit to open boxes, especially if you are also carrying a different knife. Carrying a karambit sounds like a really bad idea to me. It sounds like a ticket to jail.

And I feel confident in my belief that a butterfly-knife would also be viewed as a "weapon" and not a "common pocketknife".

My advice is always this- When the knife laws are vague, err on the side of EXTREME CAUTION! The law does not completely deny you the ability to carry a knife, so don't risk your freedom, and all the other very real nightmares that come with being arrested and convicted on a WEAPONS CHARGE, just to carry the knives you want or like best.

When it comes to carrying a knife for self-defense, NEVER tell anyone that you are carrying it for self-defense. By saying that you are carrying a knife for self-defense you are admitting that you are carrying it as a weapon. And such an admission, and the "state of mind" it demonstrates, could really come back to haunt you in court.

As far as the rules of working at McDonalds, they should have the rules written down somewhere. Ask for an employee handbook or the company regulations in print (I'm surprised they haven't already given them to you). Or you can simply ask the manager. Do not rely on the word of another employee as they might be wrong and you wouldn't want to lose your job because you took the word of someone who really didn't know the rules. And don't just assume that it's ok to carry something because you see someone else do it because that's another great way to get fired. My advice, find out EXACTLY what the rules are from the person in charge and obey those rules to the letter.
 
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I mean specifically is it illegal to carry? The classification of a common pocketknife applies to these types of knives with the exception of perhaps the balisong which has 2 handles.

The police may see it as a weapon and probably mess with me but could there be any charges brought against me?

I've rethought having 2 knives that large. I should get a smaller simple one for utility purposes if i'm going to have two. The law has no rule of how many knives you can have just simply what specifications they must meet, am I correct?
 
I can't speak to the laws specifically, should you be searched. I have no idea and I apologize for that- but generally if you're going to carry anything that even remotely resembles a weapon you should make it a strong issue not to give the police a reason to interact with you. Whether or not the knife is legal or not doesn't qualify for much.. If you are arrested and things such as weapons charges are tacked on (which will aggravate a situation and are bad enough on their own) you will still have to go through the process and pay the money to hopefully win.

If you are doing something that attracts a police officers watchful eye, the knife will not help his demeanor. At best, you'll spend some extra time in the police encounter. Legal or not, butterflies get a bad rep. So do karambits or anything else thats looks funny. Autos and assisted are a mixed bag as well. As a knife person most of us here are OK with all of them, but the standard population is not.

I googled McDonalds weapon policy for you and the only thing that came up upon instant inspection was that they have a no-gun policy, a story about an employee who was fired for presenting a gun during a robbery. I'm guessing they have a "weapons" policy and whether it's legal or not if you whip out a pocket knife and someone thinks its a "hostile work environment" you'll find yourself without a job pretty quick.

My home state is pretty "weapons" (perception, not reality) unfriendly, I just carry legal things and conceal. I can manage to accomplish my daily cutting tasks without attracting attention. If I want to cut open a bag of candy in a movie theater I do so quietly and out of eyeline. I have used my knives for utility tasks sitting right next to strangers without them noticing. If you have any doubts, I suggest being subtle.
 
Killtation said:
I mean specifically is it illegal to carry? The classification of a common pocketknife applies to these types of knives with the exception of perhaps the balisong which has 2 handles.

The police may see it as a weapon and probably mess with me but could there be any charges brought against me?

I've rethought having 2 knives that large. I should get a smaller simple one for utility purposes if i'm going to have two. The law has no rule of how many knives you can have just simply what specifications they must meet, am I correct?
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The problem is just as you described earlier- Florida knife laws are vague. The problem is that your local laws do not specifically say if your type of knife is legal or illegal. The spring-assist would specifically give me cause for concern. And if a cop and prosecuter decide that such a knife does not qualify as a "common pocketknife", the overall appearance of the knife could also hurt your chances of aquittal with the jury.

When the laws are vague it gives cops, prosecuters, and juries, the opportunity to make their own interpretation of the law. Terms like "ordinary" or "common" as they apply to knives are not legally specific and leave lots of room for individual opinion.

And the cops can do a lot more than just "mess" with you if they believe that your knife violates the law. They can arrest you and take you to jail. And unless you can afford to bail-out you could remain in jail for the duration of your case. And because the criminal justice system moves very slowly, you could be in jail for weeks or months.

And every cop is different. One cop may consider your knife to be completely legal. But another cop may see it as a violation of the law and arrest you. And when a prosecuter looks at the arrest report, I wouldn't expect them to interpret the law or look upon your knife in a way that is favorable to you. If a prosecuter believes that they can convince a jury that your knife is a "dangerous weapon", you could be convicted. Imagine a prosecuter holding your knife in front of the faces of 12 jurors, not knife enthusiasts, but people who might not see any valid reason for you to carry the knives you're carrying. Imagine the prosecuter activating the assisted opening like a switchblade. While you and I see such a thing as harmless, people on the jury might see it as a scary weapon, the sort of thing a criminal would carry.

In my personal opinion, I believe that a prosecuter might have an easy time convincing a jury that a black-tanto-bladed knife with spring assisted opening is in fact a weapon and not a "common pocketknife".

No, I haven't read anything in Floridas knife law that limits the number of knives you can carry.

Where I live (California) the knife laws are both specific and generously liberal. As a result, I don't have to worry how my knives look or how others might perceive them, not even cops. But as already stated, you live in a state where the laws are vague and that vagueness can unfortunately be used against you. Consider what you might have to lose by carrying "scary" looking knives versus what you have to gain. I think it would be better to not gamble with your freedom and your future and instead carry a knife or knives that will appear as innocent as possible to the cops and general public.
 
Very interesting input, guys. I think I'll have talk to my local LEOs before carrying the Karambit. I don't have a balisong, i was simply curious if they were legal to carry as they are fun to flip around much like i do with my Zippo lighter.

As far as my knife goes it does not fall into the guidelines of what they classify as a weapon but it does fall into the guidelines of what classifies a 'common pocketknife' therefore i don't believe i'd have too much difficulty explaining how it does not break the law especially since it does have rescue features as well as the words "United States Army" on the handle and "Army" on the blade.
 
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switchblades are legal in florida unless you live in dade . they made a law saying they where ileagal there but if you have a ccw it over rides there local law. I am going to try to scan the copy of this law so I can post it.
 
Fucking christ.... i'm on BLADEFORUMS. You people should know that Switchblades or AUTOMATIC knives are way different than ASSISTED knives.

Automatics are completely illegal in Florida unless perhaps you have a CCW.

My question again is......

Is it legal for me to carry a KARAMBIT style knife? would this fall under the definition of a "common pocketknife"?

Could somebody please just give me an answer?
 
Killtation said:
Is it legal for me to carry a KARAMBIT style knife? would this fall under the definition of a "common pocketknife"?

Could somebody please just give me an answer?
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There is no clear-cut language in the law or in case law that establishes this one way or the other. That is simply the nature of excessively vague terms being used in law like "common pocketknife." The first person to look at a knife and consider if it's illegal is a cop. Cops are notoriously unpredictable in this regard, especially when the law itself does not give them much to work with. If it came to defending yourself in court, a smart attorney could argue that the karambit is based on a Southeast Asian agricultural tool, and that the knife when the chips are down no different than the hooked "hawkbill" knives used by carpet fitters and drywall hangers all over the state in the course of lawful work.
 
glistam said:
There is no clear-cut language in the law or in case law that establishes this one way or the other. That is simply the nature of excessively vague terms being used in law like "common pocketknife." The first person to look at a knife and consider if it's illegal is a cop. Cops are notoriously unpredictable in this regard, especially when the law itself does not give them much to work with. If it came to defending yourself in court, a smart attorney could argue that the karambit is based on a Southeast Asian agricultural tool, and that the knife when the chips are down no different than the hooked "hawkbill" knives used by carpet fitters and drywall hangers all over the state in the course of lawful work.
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bull shoot. I have a copy of it too. this person is on drugs or something. we are at the gun and knife shows right out if front of the police and we are selling switchblade. sometimes they are the ones doing the buying too.
 
Killtation said:
Fucking christ.... i'm on BLADEFORUMS. You people should know that Switchblades or AUTOMATIC knives are way different than ASSISTED knives.

Automatics are completely illegal in Florida unless perhaps you have a CCW.

My question again is......

Is it legal for me to carry a KARAMBIT style knife? would this fall under the definition of a "common pocketknife"?

Could somebody please just give me an answer?
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you need to watch the way you are talking on the board. there are ladies and childern here and they dont need to see you cussing.
 
Killtation said:
Fair enough, I'll have to ask the PD to get a definite answer i guess.

Thanks.
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You're going to trust the PD to know? I've had police officers (friends) tell me a knife is illegal to carry in Pa. if the blade is longer than the width of my palm. This is a myth and 100% false. You need to find out for yourself what the knife laws are in your state and local municipalities. Try this link.

http://www.floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/showthread.php?1356-Knife-laws-in-Florida
 
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That have been some issues in some of he more communist counties in South Florida with judges interpreting the "common pocketknife" provision. The current Florida "castle doctrine" law was passed because judges down there also had some trouble understanding the old self defense law as it realted mostly to civil liability which most normal people found to be pretty clear. If you think it might be a problem, don't carry it CONCEALED. The law in Florida is not vague at all as far as it only applying to concealed carry of weapons other than firearms or contraband items like ballistic knives. You can legally carry any knife openly as long as you don't violate the laws regarding brandishing a weapon in public in a threatening manner.
 
Copied directly from http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/,
790.001 Definitions.—As used in this chapter, except where the context otherwise requires:
...
(3)(a) “Concealed weapon” means any dirk, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon carried on or about a person in such a manner as to conceal the weapon from the ordinary sight of another person.
...
(13) “Weapon” means any dirk, knife, metallic knuckles, slungshot, billie, tear gas gun, chemical weapon or device, or other deadly weapon except a firearm or a common pocketknife, plastic knife, or blunt-bladed table knife.
...
(16) “Readily accessible for immediate use” means that a firearm or other weapon is carried on the person or within such close proximity and in such a manner that it can be retrieved and used as easily and quickly as if carried on the person.
(17) “Securely encased” means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
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790.01 Carrying concealed weapons.—
(1) Except as provided in subsection (4), a person who carries a concealed weapon or electric weapon or device on or about his or her person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who carries a concealed firearm on or about his or her person commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) This section does not apply to a person licensed to carry a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm pursuant to the provisions of s. 790.06.
(4) It is not a violation of this section for a person to carry for purposes of lawful self-defense, in a concealed manner:
(a) A self-defense chemical spray.
(b) A nonlethal stun gun or dart-firing stun gun or other nonlethal electric weapon or device that is designed solely for defensive purposes.
(5) This section does not preclude any prosecution for the use of an electric weapon or device, a dart-firing stun gun, or a self-defense chemical spray during the commission of any criminal offense under s. 790.07, s. 790.10, s. 790.23, or s. 790.235, or for any other criminal offense.
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Let's also get one thing straight.
richard thurman said:
bull shoot. I have a copy of it too. this person is on drugs or something. we are at the gun and knife shows right out if front of the police and we are selling switchblade. sometimes they are the ones doing the buying too.
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The OP was not talking about switchblades, but for the record a) there is no mention of them in FL law one way or the other and b) the law only covers concealed carry, not sale. Knives that are legal to carry concealed are solely based on the determination outlined in 790.001 (13).
 
richard thurman said:
switchblades are legal in florida unless you live in dade . they made a law saying they where ileagal there but if you have a ccw it over rides there local law. I am going to try to scan the copy of this law so I can post it.
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Are you referring to any recent pre-emption legislation? If not, and I'm not aware of any such recent legislation, you'd better check with kniferights.org. CCW in Florida, at least in Miami-Dade, does not apply to knives, absurdly enough, due to the wording of the law, which does not prevent ("pre-empt") local ordinances from excepting knives from concealed carry permit coverage/protection. KnifeRights is trying to change the law to encompass concealed knives, but no developments yet. A straightforward answer to the OP: No. Don't risk it.
 
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I am going try to scan this bill or go down and have it scan for me and that way I can post it or email it to people so you know what I am talking about. I dont know how many stories I have been told about people being stop by the police and had switchblades on them. the police found them and gave them back to them just to let them go.
 
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The bottom line is this- Nothing that anyone says on this forum can be expected to convince a cop not to arrest you, or convince a judge to release you, or convince a jury to aquitt you. If you find yourself in court charged with a weapons crime, you won't get very far by saying "But a guy on Bladeforums said it was legal".

I would advise that you consult a local criminal defense attorney who has been in practice for a while. That's the CLOSEST you're going to get to a DEFINITIVE ANSWER. But even then, different lawyers might have different interpretations of the law. So there you go.

I consider this sub-forum to be nothing more than another discussion forum. And the best advice anyone can give in this forum is to read your local laws for yourself and consult a local attorney. Anything else is just a bunch of total strangers talking on the internet. And that's not something you want to wager your freedom, future, or life savings on. Even if someone on this forum gives you the RIGHT answer, how would you KNOW that it was the right answer? And how much would you be willing to bet that they are right? Sitting in a jail cell is a hell of a time to say "Damn, maybe it was a bad idea to believe that guy on the internet".

I gave you my advice, but if you choose to ignore it that means nothing to me. It's your life, make your own decisions and carry what you want. It won't cost me a thing if you're wrong and wind up behind bars. It's not uncommon for people in this world to insist on learning things the hard way.

Good luck to you.
 
glistam said:
If it came to defending yourself in court, a smart attorney could argue that the karambit is based on a Southeast Asian agricultural tool, and that the knife when the chips are down no different than the hooked "hawkbill" knives used by carpet fitters and drywall hangers all over the state in the course of lawful work.
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Of course the problem is that there is also going to be a very determined prosecuter who will argue that it is a deadly weapon specifically designed to cut people open. And that prosecuter will also likely call some form of "weapons expert" to testify to the same thing. And we all know that the general public (jurors) does not always take a favorable view of knives or people who CARRY knives.

And I wouldn't expect a public defender to bust a gut trying to defend you (some will, some won't). And even if you spend your life savings, and your families life savings, and sell your car and mortage your house to pay for a lawyer, that doesn't garuntee that they won't completely blow it at trial. Defense attorneys are only human after all and according to the defense attorneys that have been in my employ, most trials result in the defendant being convicted.

I know that you know all this Glistam, I was just offering it as the flip-side to your statement. I wouldn't want anyone to think that it would be easy to achieve an aquittal at trial. From my experience in the criminal justice system, and from the education I received from my lawyers, defendants on trial have little reason to be optimistic and should not expext a favorable outcome.
 
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