Flying from Miami to London in May. What can/should I bring?

[Fishiest1]

I don't understand what you're asking, and seeing the variety of answers, I can tell that I'm not the only one. Are you, (1,) looking for a knife that you'll be able to carry aboard a plane; (2,) a knife that is legal to EDC in the UK; or (3,) something that's a combination of both?

Both sorry for being unclear.

 

[Samon]

Can't carry that on a plane, the blade is too wide. You can try putting it in checked luggage but I've had a few knives and other things disappear from checked luggage.

If you don't want a Peanut you can always take a sak and shorten the blade a little bit, it's only a couple mm over the limit.

The blade is too wide? ..what?

I doubt you'll be allowed any pocket knife on a British flight... but I'm certain it has nothing to do with blade 'width', just the fact it could be used as a weapon on a flight (the september 11 stuff involved a multi tool as one of the weapons used to gain control).

Either way, forget the desire to have on on the flight, and focus on one that can be used in the actual country. If you want one that will also be good for some other Eu countries try the Spyderco pingu..



that little dude is also cool to have in places where 'one handed openeing' aren't allowed.

 

[Dan57]

Both sorry for being unclear.

A few things to keep in mind, then:

-Rules regarding knives can vary from airport to airport in the UK. Have you looked into the airport you'll be using to catch your return flight?

-The TSA's rules are stricter than the UK's EDC laws in pretty much every way. Anything that's allowed through TSA checkpoints will be fine for UK EDC.

-The "molded handle" clause in that TSA PDF apparently refers to any knife with any sort of handle contouring. Combined with the rules about blade width, I'd say that the only knives that clearly pass are the Victorinox Classic, Leatherman Micra, and Leatherman Style. And even those might get confiscated. You might be able to get away with an Opinel #4 or #5, or a Case Peanut.

-If you're checking luggage, just do that instead of bringing a knife carry-on. It'll be less of a risk, and there'll be no chance of confiscation if it turns out your UK airport doesn't allow knives through.

 

[Steven65]

I carry a small SAK on my keyring in the UK and nothing more. I have never had a problem with this including being searched once at Waterloo station. My advice is carry nothing more than this and you will have no problems.
Make no mistake about it, the UK Police have little tolerance for knives and if you are carrying something on or near the limit and you get a hard ass he/she will make your life miserable. Don't expect your accent or passport to save you.

Also remember that you will not be allowed to carry any knife at all through UK airport security on your return trip to the US. UK airport security enforce their own requirements not the TSA's, and all sharp objects are still banned. So when you return to the US leave your knife in your checked baggage or risk having it confiscated.

 

[jimmyd1982]

The blade is too wide? ..what?

Yes, too wide. The blade can't be more than half an inch which pretty much rules out any spydies. Also keep in mind when the tsa is measuring blade length they are looking at the whole blade and not just the sharpened part.

 

[Fishiest1]

Ok, I am seeing that I should change gears here and not worry about the flight. I still want to get a case peanut though!

Please excuse my ignorance here. When I put something like a uk penknife in my checked in bag. Do I just throw it in there or do I tell them during check in?

My daily carry here in the states is a leatherman squirt with a streamlight nano attached, a stream light micro and 2-3 oz folder. When I get there I would like to duplicate that as close as possible with being legal.

I am a coverholder with LLoyds so just stay in the financial district while there. It would be nice to have as close to my usual edc as possible.

 

[Steven65]

Please excuse my ignorance here. When I put something like a uk penknife in my checked in bag. Do I just throw it in there or do I tell them during check in?

Completely unnecessary, it is not a problem as long as it is in your checked bag.

 

[TheBritishAreComing]

Just to develop on what has already been said...
Firstly, it's important to note this applies to England (and Wales) only. If you are planning on visiting Scotland or Northern Ireland you will need to check their laws (for those unaware, Acts of Parliament passed in the UK do not apply to Scotland or Northern Ireland unless specified in the Act). I also can't comment on what will be allowed on planes by your TSA, so my comments will only apply to the situation when you are in England.

Statutory law says that you are not allowed a flick or gravity knife and that you can only carry a 'folding pocket knife' with a blade of 3 inches or less. Case law from judges' rulings has clarified this to mean non-locking folding knives. You can carry other things if you have 'a good reason or lawful authority' to do so. However, it's important to note that if a case went to court the burden of proof would lie with the defendant to show they had such a reason, the prosecution merely needs to prove you had it on you. Good reasons would be things like needing it for your work, for instance a chef carrying a large kitchen knife. But, if they carried it in a sheath on a belt chances are the defence would be rejected, carrying it in a knife roll in a bag would be reasonable. Other reasons include wearing a knife as part of a national costume or for religious reasons (such as the kirpan dagger baptised Sikhs wear as part of the Five Ks). If you're carrying 'in case the s**t hits the fan' chances are a judge won't see that as a good reason.

It should also be noted that if you have an easily opened knife (like the Spyderco UK Penknife mentioned above) in a pocket or clipped to your belt you may have problems, the police might assume you are carrying it with the intention of using it as a weapon. I EDC a UKPK (in England) but keep it in a Maxpedition Anemone pouch fastened to a Versipack, so it's not readily available, it takes a few seconds to get to it.

One very, very, very important point you need to note (when I say important I mean getting it wrong could land you in prison). If you do have any sort of knife on you and the police ask you why you are carrying it under no circumstances whatsoever do you say or even hint at self-defence. Even a knife that is legal to carry (such as the UKPK I carry) becomes an offensive weapon if it is carried with the intent of using it as a weapon, even strictly in self-defence).

TL;DR version:
3 inch or shorter folder, no gravity / flick knives, keep it in a bag / briefcase and never, ever say it's for self-defence.

 

[jwren]

-

-The "molded handle" clause in that TSA PDF apparently refers to any knife with any sort of handle contouring. Combined with the rules about blade width, I'd say that the only knives that clearly pass are the Victorinox Classic, Leatherman Micra, and Leatherman Style. And even those might get confiscated. You might be able to get away with an Opinel #4 or #5, or a Case Peanut.

Thanks for the link Dan57 - very informative.
Wasn't aware of the "molded handle" clause, wish that part were a little clearer....

 

[jamesl]

A friend of mine got arrested, charged and sentenced for carrying a SAK, one of the larger ones. He says he was lucky not to end up in prison. He now has a criminal record and lost his job.

British knife laws are over the top and the police, especially in london are dying to find any reason arrest you. They've got a real attitude problem. They can search you for no reason. They do not have to have reasonable suspicion or anything like that. I've seen them beat the hell out of people for the tiniest thing, arrest people for much less. At least half my friends there have stories about being mistreated by police. One of them beaten quite badly because he tried to stop them beating someone else. They're very good at it, make it look like they're struggling by hurting them, then all jump on top of the person and lay into him. I didn't live in an especially rough part of London, I had a respectable job and friends there, dress well, treat people with respect and I've always been polite to cops but only ever witnessed them being complete dicks and abusing their power.

I wouldn't even bother going there if its for a holiday or recreational, I know I wouldn't go back unless I had to.

 

[The Highlander]

A friend of mine got arrested, charged and sentenced for carrying a SAK, one of the larger ones. He says he was lucky not to end up in prison. He now has a criminal record and lost his job.

British knife laws are over the top and the police, especially in london are dying to find any reason arrest you. They've got a real attitude problem. They can search you for no reason. They do not have to have reasonable suspicion or anything like that. I've seen them beat the hell out of people for the tiniest thing, arrest people for much less. At least half my friends there have stories about being mistreated by police. One of them beaten quite badly because he tried to stop them beating someone else. They're very good at it, make it look like they're struggling by hurting them, then all jump on top of the person and lay into him. I didn't live in an especially rough part of London, I had a respectable job and friends there, dress well, treat people with respect and I've always been polite to cops but only ever witnessed them being complete dicks and abusing their power.

I wouldn't even bother going there if its for a holiday or recreational, I know I wouldn't go back unless I had to.

what a crock

 

[airmojo]

If you need something that cuts, put a knife edge on an old credit card, NRA card, AAA travel cards, etc... the thicker the better... or laminate a couple of them together for added thickness... kept in your wallet.

Damn shame a person can't carry a simple utility pocket knife... mine being my Victorinox SAK Executive model.

 

[parbajtor]

It isn't the TSA you need to deal with, it is the British legal system that you will have to obey.

British laws do not allow for carry of locking knives longer than 3 inches unless you are camping or hunting in the appropriate locales, so you should limit yourself to SAKs and traditional slipcase knives just in case. -Do not think that you can pull a "I'm a dumb American!" defense, as foreign police and judges love to make examples of Americans. When in their country, obey their laws.

The knives ok for TSA carry on are fine for UK. TSA says 7cm maximum length. UK law says under 3" (7.54cm) non locking folder. I would leave the knife in your checked luggage untill you get to the UK, or take 2.
Spyderco UKPK is specifically designed to comply with UK knife carry laws. Generally, traditional (sub 3") slipjoints are fine, Tactical looking slippies and friction folders might be questioned (as the policeman may not be familiar with that kind of knife) but ideally should be ok, because they are S.139 exempt.
Please be aware that there are 2 situations in the UK regarding knives.
The law says that you do not need any reason to carry a non locking sub 3" folding pocketknife. They are exempt from all knife laws (apart from using it as an offensive weapon, where anything can become an offensive weapon by intent or actual use).
The general public (including many members of the police force) believe that all knives are banned because that's what newspapers (and rumour) state far too often. This means that a policeman who stops you and discovers the knife during a search, may believe he has you on a S.139 of Criminal Justice Act - Carrying a knife in a public place without "lawful reason" -
He may also believe there is no "lawful reason" for carrying any knife at all. He may arrest you or attempt to confiscate the knife. Know your rights and insist upon them. Do not accept a Police Caution (they may even try to pretend it's not a caution) This is a "Guilty plea" without the benefit of a trial. It will get you home early, without your knife and with a criminal record. If the Policeman arrests you, it's normally the custody sergeant who will be aware (hopefully) of the law and give you back your Section 139 exempt knife and send you on your way (no harm, no foul). Depending on which newpaper the custody sergeant reads, this might not happen. You may spend some time in a cell. During your PACE interview (Police And Criminal Evidence) state that you believe the knife to be exempt from S.139 of the Criminal Justice Act as it is a non-locking folding pocketknife with a blade length of less than 3". You therefore do not need to provide a reason for carrying the knife and you will not accept its confiscation and destruction. If ( for some ridiculous reason, it doesn't end there and) it still goes to court, insist on a crown court hearing (not a magistrates). Magistrates are unqualified upstanding members of the community, with little legal training and full of the usual NKP/ middle class prejudices (think New Yorkers) and many miscarriages/travesties of justice have been handed out by them over the centuries. Usually the CPS (Crown Prosecution Service, equivalent to the DA's office) realise the situation and drop the case early, but they are busy and may not see your case file until the day before 1st hearing.
Read some of the law section on Britishblades.com to become familiar with some of the issues. To compare reality, New York has stricter carry laws and any knife not specifically on the Offensive weapons list (flick knives, gravity knives, balisongs, shuriken, concealed/disguised knives, trench knives, knuckledusters, sword sticks etc.) are legal to carry (in a public place) provided you have good reason. You can do what you like on private property with the owner of the land's permission. This means that unlike Texas, UK subjects can own and carry bowie knives when hunting.
The biggest drawback of the british legal system is that without a constitution/bill of rights, justice is more dependant on circumstances than it is the "letter of the law". You sometimes have to go through a lot of inconvenience to uphold your rights. The thing is, you guys have had 237 years to balance constitutional rights with the dispensing of justice. Our constitutional rights come from the EU and were "imposed" on us in 1998. We're not used to the "freedom of dissent".

 

[parbajtor]

A friend of mine got arrested, charged and sentenced for carrying a SAK, one of the larger ones. He says he was lucky not to end up in prison. He now has a criminal record and lost his job.

British knife laws are over the top and the police, especially in london are dying to find any reason arrest you. They've got a real attitude problem. They can search you for no reason. They do not have to have reasonable suspicion or anything like that. I've seen them beat the hell out of people for the tiniest thing, arrest people for much less. At least half my friends there have stories about being mistreated by police. One of them beaten quite badly because he tried to stop them beating someone else. They're very good at it, make it look like they're struggling by hurting them, then all jump on top of the person and lay into him. I didn't live in an especially rough part of London, I had a respectable job and friends there, dress well, treat people with respect and I've always been polite to cops but only ever witnessed them being complete dicks and abusing their power.

I wouldn't even bother going there if its for a holiday or recreational, I know I wouldn't go back unless I had to.

what a crock

Police are not known colloquially as "the Filth" for nothing. English & Welsh knife laws are actually perfectly reasonable. (I can't vouch for Scotland, you've always gone your own way when it comes to law) The real problem comes from the police's interpretation of what "good reason" consists of and the dispensing of justice by unqualified magistrates, who also may have differing interpretations as to good reason. A judge was lambasted by the Press recently for peeling an apple in his court using a perfectly legal pocketknife. The Law has no meaning in the Court of Public Opinion adjudicated by the editor of the Daily Mail newspaper.
It is entirely possible for a situation like that to arise, it is also possible that the friend could appeal his conviction and have it quashed and his "good name" restored. Just because the knife was "a large SAK" doesn't automatically mean it was exempt from S.139. It could have a longer blade than 3" and many SAKs nowadays have locking blades. If the knife was S.139 exempt then it was a miscarriage of justice and legal redress is available (subject to statute of limitations).
Not completely accurate regarding Police behaviour, but can be an accurate impression. Police do need a reason to search you, but you asking what that reason is will most likely be regarded as being "cheeky, difficult, uncooperative" etc. "Reasonable suspicion" is open to interpretation and is only loosely defined by law. The only "god given" rights available to a British Subject is the right to do anything that is not currently illegal (or may not be interpreted that way by an Enforcing Officer). Police do not have the right to do any of the things listed by Jamesl, but that doesn't mean they don't or can't get away with it if they do. There is no "shoot to kill" policy in operation, but there's a long list of innocent people fatally shot by the police with no enquiry afterwards. JC de Menezes & Mark Duggan are just the most recent & prominent incidents. The law doesn't "allow" (some of) the police to act this way, but it does very little to prevent them. The laws that do operate to prevent this behaviour are largely of EU origin, which means even the Government think they can pick & choose which bits to obey/ignore and they get upset when the European Court of Human Rights overturns sentencing etc. Please note that ECHR is the "final court of appeal" stage.

If you need something that cuts, put a knife edge on an old credit card, NRA card, AAA travel cards, etc... the thicker the better... or laminate a couple of them together for added thickness... kept in your wallet.

Damn shame a person can't carry a simple utility pocket knife... mine being my Victorinox SAK Executive model.

That advice is an offensive weapons charge in the making. Modification of an article to create an offensive weapon. It may also qualify as a "disguised knife". A sharpened screwdriver will get you a longer term in jail than a 20" machete.

EDIT: S.139 CJA doesn't just cover knives or other bladed articles, it covers anything "sharply pointed" as well (and the sub 3" non-locking folding part does not apply to those.) This means you can be arrested and charged for carrying a pencil. Potentially even carrying a lemon is a breach, it is "sharp" after all and pointed. There is no case law currently defining "sharply pointed".

 

[Samon]

That's our knifelaw for you, subjective. It's purposely written in that manner so thugs can't get away with carrying weapons and the average guy is protected and common sense can be used.


Now this I'm cool with this, but in practice it doesn't alwas go to plan and it's mainly due to media and press bullshit. They constantly post stories on 'knife crime' and it makes people worry, sells papers and conplicates the expectations of officers enforcing legitimate cases. the rpess need to be controlled better, atleast ina w ay where it's illegal to post complete lies!