Folder Locks

[Loki]

OK - we've got lock backs, liners, monos, rocks, axis', ett,. and there is always a debate as to what's best. I've got lock backs and liners and they all seem to work as advertised. I've never stressed a folder to the point of failure. I guess when there is really hard work to do I select a fixed blade or other tool. My question is - does the lock design really matter so much? Are the newer designs that much better?

 

[David Rock]

Loki,

Here is a link to a recent thread on the subject:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum54/HTML/002025.html

David Rock


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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.

 

[Full Tang Clan]

Loki,

I proposed a similar question recently regarding "spine whacking tests" and fail-safe locks and got torn to shreds.

The question is NOT whether better locking systems are desireable. Of course they are. Product evolution is a great thing. However, is it totally necessary?

Well, I think it depends on what you are using it for. If it's for straight cutting, our grandpas got along fine with old pocket knives with no locking mechanisms whatsoever and still have all their fingers intact.

After all, as I argue, you put pressure against the blade edge when you cut. Not the spine.

However, from the responses from my thread, some people use their folding knives above and beyond mere cutting. They use it as chisels and prybars, staple removers, and the occassional slotted screwdrivers.

There are even "would be Rambo" types who propose implausible scenarios such as: "what if I'm in a knife fight and a big bruiser whacks my knife's spine with a baseball bat?". Yeah, right! Reality check please.

 

[Matt Shade]

Well, I guess in your case the lock isn't that big of a deal. Its not in mine either really, at least for one use. I don't regularly stress the locks on my folders to the limit, in fact I try not to rely on them at all.Its just nice to have a locking blade for those times when you have no choice, at least for me, every once in awhile I have to do somehting with what I have at hand even if it isn't the best tool for the job.( and sometimes I'm to lazy to go get the right tool for the job and use my knife anyway )
If you ask me the real advantage to a lock that can handle brute force loads on it, is that it will wear much leass over time than a lock thats not made quite so heavily. I have a spyderco delica 98 that I've been carrying for about 2 years now and its starting to develop some slight up and down play in the blade, I'm not sure if its wear on the lock itself, or on that handle and pins. So I'm going to put a new handle on it sometime and see if that fixes it. But first I'm going to replace it with something a little more heavy duty. The delica performed well under the hard use and heavy cutting I put it through, but I'd have liked it to last a little longer. I'm thinking more along the lines of an axis lock now. Its more pricey, but its also built more heavily and should take more wear and tear.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.

 

[Samurai6]

The new locks are much more reliable and stronger than the common lockback and liner locks. These locks make the knife safer, whether you appreciate it or not is another question. I know I do.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Full Tang wrote:

However, from the responses from my thread, some people use their folding knives above and beyond mere cutting. They use it as chisels and prybars, staple removers, and the occassional slotted screwdrivers.

Well, the above is certainly true. But if you came to the conclusion that everyone who argued for robust testing was using their knives as chisels, etc., I think some re-reading is in order. Even regular utility use can put tremendous strain on the blade back -- period. There's at least one case I know of a guy cutting cardboard -- "mere cutting" as you'd say -- and the knife got stuck a little bit, which is not an uncommon occurence. He twisted the knife a little bit to torque it out, which is a very common reaction, and the liner lock failed. Bottom line: stitches in his fingers.

I'll say it again. If you're just using your knife to open envelopes and clean your nails, these knife tests probably don't apply to you. If you're actually using your knife to cut lots of different things -- and I don't mean like a prybar or screwdriver -- lock reliability should be a prime concern. Those who really use their knives hard are already concerned about reliability, so it's guys who think they don't need to worry about it because "I use the knife correctly" who need to be informed that they can get bitten.

 

[Full Tang Clan]

Joe,

I don't think it's necessary, nor constructive to critique every quote I say.

I'm afraid you are taking my general message out of context.

In general, I'm saying the same thing you are: "It depends on what you need it for."

Some people may need a fail-safe Axis lock and G-10 handles. Others may only require a Zytel handled lock-back. Still others may only need a Victorinix Swiss Army Knife.

That's why there are such a wide range of knives on the market, because every concumers' needs are different. I have a degree in marketing for crying out loud. Of course I support innovation and new product lines.

BTW: You missed the quote where I said how wonderful I thought product evolution was.

No hard feelings. :}

 

[Griffon]

Originally posted by Loki:
I guess when there is really hard work to do I select a fixed blade or other tool. My question is - does the lock design really matter so much?

I think your first sentence is right on the spot. A folder with a lock will never be more than something like an exceptionally weak fixed blade knife.

However, I do think lock design matters. Not so much strength, but how easy it is to operate the knife with one hand.

Originally posted by Joe Talmadge:
I'll say it again. If you're just using your knife to open envelopes and clean your nails, these knife tests probably don't apply to you.

I can think of lots of other uses where it really doesn't matter much how strong or reliable the lock is. Possibly it comes down to that some people will want their folder to perform like a substitute fixed blade, some use it like a folder and think of it as folder while using it, almost like the lock wasn't there.



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Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
Latest update: A Russian hand made hunting knife

"I've always been fascinated by Scandinavian knives [...] they're simple, in an advanced way".
- Bob Loveless

 

[Samurai6]

Full Tang Clan - the question for discussion was:

"My question is - does the lock design really
matter so much? Are the newer designs that much better?"

I say, yes it does, and yes, they are. A more reliable lock, even assuming proper use, means a safer folding knife.

If half as safe is good enough for you, that is either a considered, adult decision based on experience and practices, or you are stupid. I normally give people the benefit of the doubt until they start insulting me. So don't tell me that I am out of touch with reality, and I won't tell you that anybody who thinks liner locks make any safer lock unnecessary is a dolt.

Sincerely,

Wood B. Rambo


[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 08-03-2000).]

 

[HJK]

FTC, you were being a bit unfair, and sarcastic, to those of us who expect a lock to hold up under pressure or torque which tends to close the knife. Sure, grandpa managed just fine without any lock at all, and so do I if I know there's no lock: I'll modify my technique and expectations of the knife accordingly. But some of us would like a folder that goes beyond such limitations, and that is in part what advances in lock design and execution are all about.
Maybe some of the testing can be ridiculed as planning for a baseball bat attack on the spine of your knife, but some of us like double bladed knives and actually train in using a sharpened top edge. A double edged tactical folder is a legitimate and useful instrument, and a solid lock is absolutely essential for many techniques, not just repelling an attack by a crazed Sammy Sosa.
Some folks think a double edged knife is only good as a tent peg; others think it has utility as well as defensive uses. But even for a single edged knife, the more secure the lock the better: accidental impacts and torques do happen in a variety of circumstances and uses. Yes, the lock is important to me, and I'll keep looking for better and more secure ones.
Whoever it was that said a folder will never be as secure as a straight knife was absolutely right. That's one reason why I still favour straight knives: but folders do have some advantages, and so the search continues.

 

[stjames]

Originally posted by Full Tang Clan:
Product evolution is a great thing. However, is it totally necessary?

Even a species that has found it's niche needs to evolve to suit it's environment. Man Evolves, Earth Abides.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA