Folder Strength. - Why? Time for Reality.

I think lock strength is all about staying locked when using it for cutting. BAtoning may hurt the lock?, but the blade would be oriented in a safe direction and I don't see coming into harm from that.

The pivot pin would be more of a concern on breakage.

Also if using the tip to drill a hole, you'd want the lock to work.

The whole spine-whack thing never has made sense to me, as it's about SHOCK to the knife.
 
knarfeng said:
I think people confuse the terms "strong" and "reliable".

If I have a locking blade, I want it to stay locked until I unlock it. It doesn't have to be horrendously strong, but it does have to be reliable.
Click to expand...

ToyKnife said:
I'm referring to strong. But reliable is changes in different situations. Reliable is an by product or effect of strong, don't you think.
Click to expand...

No. They are two separate properties.

Strength - how much stress before the lock actually breaks and becomes incapable of functioning. This is the property folks talk about if they "need" a folding pry bar. This is more a function of the design than anything else: thickness and strength of materials used.

Reliability - how likely is the lock mechanism to slip. This is the true property that the user needs for everyday cutting safety. This is more often a function of holding proper tolerances during the manufacturing process.
 
Angus McGunnigl said:
I think lock strength is all about staying locked when using it for cutting. BAtoning may hurt the lock?, but the blade would be oriented in a safe direction and I don't see coming into harm from that.

The pivot pin would be more of a concern on breakage.

Also if using the tip to drill a hole, you'd want the lock to work.

The whole spine-whack thing never has made sense to me, as it's about SHOCK to the knife.
Click to expand...

That's why most people baton with the lock disengaged, using the knife as a splitting wedge.
 
Has anyone pointed out that a $300 folder probably isn't as strong as a $39.99 fixed blade yet?
 
powernoodle said:
People want a strong folder because it does not make much sense to want a weak folder.

:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Exactly. Unless the strength parameter is starting to limit some other aspect of performance, why not have it?

What in the world is wrong with spending $300 on a folder? Some people spend millions of dollars on stuff that just hangs on the wall... and you can't even cut with it.
 
To address the OP, I agree. Knives should be used for knife purposes. I got a Hinderer XM-18 and I like the idea that it's tough and all, but I wouldn't use it for anything other than knife purposes. More specifically, I wouldn't use it for anything other than folding-knife purposes. I still like that it's tough and I enjoyed my purchase. I appreciate good quality.
 
Nothing wrong with a $300 folder but it would be better spent on a fixed if you are looking to really get down and dirty.

I think the strength parameter starts to limit the knife's ability to slice at some point.

I too like well made, especially, knives. I wouldn't use a knife for a job that it can't handle. If I need a hammer I'll find something other then a knife and use that as a improvised hammer. There are only so many things in the world that can cut. Why destroy those limited amount of tools to do such an important job.
 
johnny reb said:
I carry a folder a lot. It`s used for cutting. I carry a hatchet for "batoning", and for scaring sheeple I carry a gun. It all works for me, and has for years.
Click to expand...

Might I suggest a bloody machete and a hockey mask? Worked in the movies, works for me...:D
 
ToyKnife said:
Why all this talk about how strong a folder is or should be?

I'm just sitting here reading about how folder X is stronger then folder Y and how folder A cuts better then B, etc.

Think about it. Has anyone been in a situation where you only have a folder and nothing else? I mean nothing! No object to use as a hammer or pry bar. Maybe you are on a island with no small branches or trees to break branches against. Or in a building with no chair or microwave to smash against the window. Or maybe you are stranded because your car breaks down or runs out of gas and all you have is your folder and the tire iron.

If you know you are going into a situation you will have a small fixed blade to aid in your quest. For example, Busse Active Duty or larger such as the SAR-4. Basically, you go prepared. Do you camp without supples or drive across country with informing someone or planning out where you are going and what equipment you will need? No, is the answer. If you do, Darwinism at its finest which equals less knuckleheads breathing good air.

Besides what in the world are you going to pry or baton with a 3.5" blade and a knife that is ~7" in total length? Be realistic; are you going to risk destroying your only knife in a "I'm on the show Lost" situation? I don't think so. If so, then refer to previous comment about Darwin.

See where I'm going with this?

What is a knife used for? Slice, cut, stab, and to scare the Sheeple.
Click to expand...

I love knives - no more, no less.

I'm glad to have the opportunity to have SO many options to choose from that we can discuss a topic like this.

The appeal to owning a stout folder is no different that someone wearing a Breitling or a Timex - both do the same thing within acceptable tolerances, but there are thousands of dollars worth of difference.

Isn't it great!!!:D
 
I have no desire to carry a fixed blade in a sheath or around my neck like a manly necklace which is why I carry a folder in my pocket. I also recognize the limitations of the joint construction and use it accordingly.

Folders evolved for a reason....ease of carry. The machine shop replaced the forge many years ago. Just think, our ancestors could of had folding spears if they had bigger pockets.

As far as batoning, I have small axes (same size as large fixed blade) that will go through just about anything using a small log as hammer.
 
Last edited:
ToyKnife said:
Why all this talk about how strong a folder is or should be?

I'm just sitting here reading about how folder X is stronger then folder Y and how folder A cuts better then B, etc.

Think about it. Has anyone been in a situation where you only have a folder and nothing else? I mean nothing! No object to use as a hammer or pry bar. Maybe you are on a island with no small branches or trees to break branches against. Or in a building with no chair or microwave to smash against the window. Or maybe you are stranded because your car breaks down or runs out of gas and all you have is your folder and the tire iron.

If you know you are going into a situation you will have a small fixed blade to aid in your quest. For example, Busse Active Duty or larger such as the SAR-4. Basically, you go prepared. Do you camp without supples or drive across country with informing someone or planning out where you are going and what equipment you will need? No, is the answer. If you do, Darwinism at its finest which equals less knuckleheads breathing good air.

Besides what in the world are you going to pry or baton with a 3.5" blade and a knife that is ~7" in total length? Be realistic; are you going to risk destroying your only knife in a "I'm on the show Lost" situation? I don't think so. If so, then refer to previous comment about Darwin.

See where I'm going with this?

What is a knife used for? Slice, cut, stab, and to scare the Sheeple.
Click to expand...

Seriously, man, you're looking for reality on BladeForums?
 
I think it would make sense to destroy my knife if I were going to die if I didn't.
Besides, that's why you should always carry at least two "spares".:D
 
Psychopomp said:
A knife is used to cut. Most people don't need to stab, and if you do need a hole in something, a knife is too big, you'll be better off with an awl.

If I was in a situation where I had to pry with my EDC knife, I'd pry with it until it broke. But the chances of that happening are slim to none, so I would never base my knife needs on how much prying I can do with it.

Self defense isn't a concern of mine and I there people around here aren't afraid of knives, so I use my knives to cut. If I need to pry, I have several different sized crowbars and other prying tools. If I need to stab a hole in something, I have drill.
Click to expand...

are you serious. i stab boxes open all the time. almost cost me my best friend (bought me a cat for my birthday). you should have seen her face when i stabbed the box open
 
I need a strong knife because I am strong.
\
I've broken a Spyderco Byrd credit card knife by snapping it open, Sog Trident folder by throwing it at a tree. an Endrua from the '90s cutting some canvas and most recently the Cold Steel pocket bushman pulling on the lanyard. I also broke the pliers on a leatherman trying to cut a bed spring. I probably shouldn't have thrown that SOG, but it broke at the weak point where the stupid non-functional cord cutter is.

Now I carry a skirmish, it can handle the force I can exert.
 
OK........

I have been carrying "slipjoints" most of my life and except for when I was very very young and learning to "use" it I have not had issues with it closing during use.

The reality is that during the vast majority of use's including fighting the stress on a lock is very little. This also includes reverse grip edge out as well. The biggest issue is not strength but mechanical design, the lock must not disengage during use.

Prying with a folder presents a hole different set of design issues which have little to do with lock strength. Prying forces are lateral in nature and most folders have thin blades with acute points which are designed for "cutting" and not prying. The next issue is the pivot pin and handle scales which are are on most knives not designed for hard lateral forces they tend to flex bend/set and break. The pivot pins tend to loosen creating lateral play in the blade which by the way can lead to lock disengagement.

If lock strength is your biggest issue then have a look at Cold Steels new line of knives featuring the tri-ad lock. It's most likely the best engineered lock available regarding strength, complete functionality remains even after extreme vertical loads. Now what about lateral loads who knows, I haven't seen a test on that.

One could also just take the $300+ dollars and invest in a good fixed blade and not worry the whole strength thing..... ;)
 
I am a junkie..I can admit it. I love knives but I buy them(LOTS of them) to use. I would'nt be prying or batoning with my folders UNLESS life or limb was in mortal danger. I've got axes,tomahawks,prybars and other tools for that. On the other hand I buy the strongest lockbacks I can afford or at least justify. I dont carry a tool of any kind unless I'm willing to bet my life on it. If that means spending 39.95 that fantastic but if it means spending 300.00 I'm willing to do it. The true value is not in dollars, its is the value of trust you have in that knife.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top