Folder vs Fixed, it's the sheath that weighs

stingray4540 said:
Exactly! So if you go with the lightest knife, you can carry an extra power bar!:thumbup:

Another thing to consider, is that 3 oz. may seem trivial, but when you add it to the 5oz. you saved on another item, and the 2oz of another item, etc. You start saving pounds.
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Point conceded, but when you add the 5 oz knife to the 144 of rifle, the 96 oz pack, 128 oz of water, 80 oz of boots, undetermined oz of food and clothing; that 3 oz of knife (the difference) seems a bit trivial.

Most of my hiking occurs during a hunting season, hence the rifle.
 
Here gram weenies. Was posting this by mistake in the favorite folder thread while reading this one in another window.
You might like the AG Russell 2.5 and 3.0 for little stuff. I think my 2.5 weighs .5oz.
The 3.0 is a monstrous .9oz, but has a lanyard hole. Would beat using the blade on a Vnox Classic like a lot of ultralighters apparently do. Ti and VG-10, at $35 or less.
http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-25-titanium-lockback-folder/p/RUShhhP6CQ/
http://www.agrussell.com/ag-russell-3-0-titanium-lockback-folder/p/RUShhhP73TI/
 
pitdog said:
You could always get one of these !

ValCostessmallknivessetbocoteshe-2.jpg


Aah ain't she cute !:D
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pitdog - What ML knife is that??? :confused:

Any pics of the blade?
 
hlee said:
The difference between the lightest and the heaviest is 3.1 oz (almost 1/5 lb- just more than the weight of the powerbar I had for breakfast). I'm sure I would never notice the extra weight.
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+1 on this
 
Bruce Culberson said:
Micarta is fairly dense, switching to something like walnut would shave some weight. I'm going on an 8 day backpacking sheep hunt this fall - you have inspired me to try building a lighter knife.
Cool thread.
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Hey Bruce, would like to keep in touch with you about that light knife you're building, need a companion to the wharncliffe I got from you... A couple thoughts on it, I find that 3/32 works for my uses and trims weight. Also, to me it's not worth it to sacrifice handle length...
 
A couple of ounces on a knife don't matter -- until you start adding up. There's a lot of truth to the saying that the way to save pounds is to save ounces. Does that mean you have to obsess over every little thing? No -- but you do have to think about cumulative effects. "Aw, screw it -- it's only a few ounces extra" is how you end up carrying 60 pounds for a weekend trip.

A 30-degree ultralight down sleeping bag is a bit over a pound, and a decent quality synthetic is 2-3 pounds. A 50-liter Osprey or Gregory pack is very close to 3 pounds, while a sturdy MaxPed or other tactical/surplus style bag is closer to 6. And so on, with tents, stoves, etc.

The other thing is that lightweight gear pays compound interest -- weight you save allows you to go lighter with other gear, as well. A lighter load can be carried in a smaller/lighter pack, which allows you to wear lighter boots... etc.
 
Smersh is dead on.

I used to obsess about weight when I was a mountain guide. I would cut off the margins on maps, cut down and drill out tooth brushes, use as much titanium as possible, replace the aluminum tent poles with custom carbon fiber ones, $500 all spectra backpack, everything had to have at least 3 uses or it got tossed, and on and on.

On a long expedition I cut out all of the labels on on my clothing, tent, sleeping bag, etc. and saved over a pound. It's shocking how quickly it adds up.

You can easily shave at least 10+ lbs by replacing The Big 3 with lighter versions: tent, sleeping bag and sleeping pad, and it doesn't necessarily mean spending a fortune either (but often it does to really get the weight down. Look at it as an investment towards quality, long lasting gear [usually...sometimes light is flimsy and cheap]. Plus it makes the whole experience more pleasant.)

I've broken my back, need a knee replacement which has caused problems with my other knee and both hips, etc. etc. and saving that weight makes the whole experience a much more pleasant and less painful one for me.
 
I've probably made a half dozen knives. Maybe a few more. I always take weight into consideration. Mostly smallish knives. Tangs full of holes. Big holes surrounded by smaller holes, surrounded by even smaller holes. Sheaths made from the thinnest Concealex available. I can comfortably carry only so much weight. An ounce or two saved on the knife is an ounce or two I can devote to something else. I've got a digital scale. If I carry it, it gets weighed, whether its for in the field or edc. I carry a lot of junk around in my pockets. I'm prepared for almost anything short of Armageddon. I couldn't do this if I didn't obsessively take weight into consideration.

My current favorite backpacking/dayhiking knife is a Mora is a OD 546-G with the guard cut off. It's basically a OD stainless 510. As I'm left handed, I had to make my own sheath. Together they weigh 3.6 oz. It's a lot of knife for the weight.

I suspect that those with a weight obsession have a backpacking background.
 
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Hey Bruce, would like to keep in touch with you about that light knife you're building, need a companion to the wharncliffe I got from you... A couple thoughts on it, I find that 3/32 works for my uses and trims weight. Also, to me it's not worth it to sacrifice handle length...
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How do you like that handle shape on the wharncliffe? I like that design for trying to keep things compact yet fully usable. I'm thinking I'll build that style of handle 4" long and a blade of ~3". Something big enough for deboning and animal yet not to big for the finer detail required for caping. Actually a knife shape very similar to the one I just sold:

micartanecker007.jpg


I also made of knife of this design for KGD and he seems to like it.

I'm going to try doing my first tapered tang and use wood that is lighter than bocote. I know that if I want to just go really light I would pack a folder (where the sheath is also the handle), but I want a fixed blade that is still rugged - 3/32" steel would be perfect.

Here is a pic of the second knife that I ever made (the shorter one):

greenmicarta001.jpg


I used this knife in 2008 to skin, quater, remove backstraps and tenderloins, and cape out the head of a whitetail (then had to pack it out ~2km). This knife has a 3 7/8" handle and 2 3/4" blade. Here is the buck:

2008027.jpg


Bruce
 
To each their own, of course, but the day I would leave a Scott Gossman beauty home, like the one pictured, because of the extra ounces, is the day I'd take up crocheting..........oh wait, I do crochet :(

Doc
 
From The 13th Warrior

Skeld the Superstitious:"You'll need this."
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan:"I cannot lift this!"- It weighs 5 ounces, at least 3 ounces over weight.
Herger the Joyous:"Grow stronger!"

There is a lot of truth in the above quote.

If I shave 3 ounces off of my pack weight then I could carry an extra powerbar... Or I could just carry an extra powerbar.

There is also a lot of truth in carrying a lighter version of the gear that you do carry. I'm in the market for a lighter sleeping pad, and a warmer weather (lighter) sleeping bag. Carrying 3 lb of bear keg because I hunt in bear country is a pain, but I guess it is worth the weight. I do try to pack lighter, and replace gear with lighter gear when it needs replacement, but 5 ounces is still insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Even if your total load out is 10 lb, 5 ounces is 3% of your gear weight.
 
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not at home (anf going by a shaky memory :)) my Gossman PSK sans handles (paracord wrapped) was just a little over 2.0 oz w/o sheath
the Koster WSS was right at 2.0 oz even (it came w/ a really light 0.060 kydex sheath- less than an oz)
the Landi PSK (1/8" G10) was a little over 2.0 oz w/o sheath
Fallkniven WM1 2.3 oz (remember this as I just got it :D) w/o sheath

I've packed all the above (except the WM1) and all are more than enough knife for backpacking (big game hunting as well)

I usually setup my small backpaking knives w/ a little cordage, small firesteel, whistle and photon light- it's part of my primary "layer"- it's weight they I pay attention to, but no fretting about it :)
 
Well, I think ultra-light folks have the same addiction that ultra-sharp folks have. There can be a middle ground that works for the majority of people. I think that message is pretty clear throughout this thread. A functional knife that can do everything I need to do and to do it comfortably is worth its weight to me. Recognizing this, I have pretty much foregone the idea of big choppers in my day pack or hiking. I tend to go with a midsize blade and small EDC. Beyond that I don't sweat it much.
 
the weight of the knives I'll take afield is not a factor that I consider. If the blade does what I need it to do, it goes.
There will be opportunities elsewhere to pare ounces.
 
I love traditional scandi knives for their simple sheaths. Leather or plastic there is nothing extra. A simple deep-wrapping sheath and a semi-dangling belt loop is perfect IMHO.


Im not sure if this thread really pertains to the folder vs fixed decision, but here are some of my thoughts anyway:

I often leave my small fixed blades behind and take a solid folder -not just for weight but for the comfort of pocket clip carry VS belt carry. Especially when I am hauling a full pack that has a big waist strap near my belt line. A folder is easier to grab from the pocket in that scenario. I will also have a machete strapped to my pack -and having the strength of the machete lessens the need for a strong fixed blade. It can lessen overall weight depending on the knives you are choosing from. It still all depends on where I am going though -right now I am in the tropics so my above choice reflects this environment. When I am in the PNW I will always have a fixed blade and maybe a hatchet.
 
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I have been working hard on reducing my pack weight for longer trips - pack in the 3lb range, tent is 3lb (I insist on a full coverage tent, and will carry the weight), three season down bag that is 1lb 3oz, and a carbon fiber bear canister (yeah, I usually go where they are required).

But I will pay the weight penalty of a substantial fixed blade. On a backpacking trip a few years ago, the first one I brought a fixed blade on, it saved me a lot of grief at one point in the trip. The ability to baton made all the difference. As a result, I always carry something that will work well for batoning, and I like a 4" blade.

That doesn't mean that it has to be heavy. I had this one made to my design:
11-21-09007.jpg


Although it has a 4" blade that is 5/32" thick, it weighs in at 4.27 oz. Since the fixed blades you show are all smaller, you could easily have a smaller fixed blade that weighs considerably less, by using thinner stock and a stick tang.
 
If you factor in blade length you'll find your results changing also. From a practical side, if I was limited to one knife it would have to have a blade of 4" minimimum, 5" would be better. And if you're carrying 2 leaving one behind saves you all that weight.
 
every situation is different, everyone has their own preferences- personally I've found a small fixed blade (as posted above 2.5-3"- 2-3 oz) teamed w/ a Fiskars (or Fiskars like) folding saw (3 oz) serves me very well day hiking/hunting/fishing, for backpacking the saw generally stays home
 
I don't even consider the weight of my knife. To me it is essential gear and goes along regardless.

Second; My knife ALWAYS is atached to my person. NOT MY PACK. This allows me to retain this vital survival tool if somehow I become completely seperated from the gear in my pack. The same with other survival essentials.

To this point a High quality sheath is absolutely essential to carry the knife. It prevents damage to the blade, aids in retention thus preventing loss, AND protects me from the blade.

some considerations are far more important than weight.
 
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