Folders: What's the "Strongest" Lock?

You have to make a distinction between strongest lock in theory, and most reliable lock. I would say that in theory, a properly made framelock with a thick frame is the strongest and is capable of withstanding the most force, however, even a framelock could be inadvertantly disengaged under extreme, unusual conditions, and in that case, all the strength in the world doesnt mean squat. :)

So, i would say that a lockback is the most reliable lock, i cant imagine disengaging one by accident, but for sheer strength, a thick framelock, IF it is properly made, which unfortunately, like liner locks, isn't apparently that easy to do. Chris Reeve has it down, but he's a rare example. The ONLY other framelocks i have been completely satisfied with, that i felt were consistantly perfectly executed is by JW Smith. He too has it down to a science.

That being said, i have never accidentally disengaged a plunge lock on a Microtech auto, and they feel pretty strong, but i have no idea what their rated strength is. Im sure its less than a framelock, but possibly more than a lockback, if anybody knows, id be interested to hear about it.
 
If we're talking just sheer strength, then I think a number of lock formats can be made really strong.

Overall, no one who hasn't looked at a megalodon should feel too smug that their candidate for strongest lock really is the strongest. That lock is insane!

Some of the locks for autos appear to be really strong, requiring shearing of a pretty thick pin. I don't know too much about these locks or their vulnerabilities though.

Among manual openers, forgetting the megalodon, I don't know if the axis or a well-done framelock would be stronger. With the axis, I expect you'd have to drive the pin through the frame and handle scales, though at some point before that I'd guess the frame might fail. With a framelock, you'd have to bend the locking leaf, which I suppose would happen at the place where the vertical slots are milled out. I haven't tried to explicitly fail a good example of either type.
 
Well not be smart but the only true lock is no lock. The fixed blade.

In my experience I have to say BM AXIS the Linner locks then lock backs similar to most Spyder. These are the only once I have had the chance to try out so that is my order.
 
I would imagine someone out there has purchased the patent to that Centerlock of Niemi's. I wonder who.

Busse would do well to take a close look at it if they decide to actually make a folder-- or market a folder.
 
Originally posted by Manji
exactly, no other knife opens and closes with as much style
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I'm not sure I'm willing to give the balisong the nod over Niemi's centerlock for strength just yet, though I admit that it's been so long since I've held a balisong that I don't quite remember how they lock up. To break a balisong's lock, you have to sheer a single welded-on pin, or sheer that pin through the handles, right? I'm not sure I can see right off why sheering off a large locking lug through very thick hardened S30V liners would be any easier... I'll have to handle a balisong soon to re-acquaint myself with the locking mechanism.

Joe
 
The REKAT rolling lock is pretty freaking strong, and very hard to accidentally disengage.
 
Originally posted by komondor
From what I've read, nothing comes close to Arlee Niemi's Centerlock-- nothing. It's basically a fixed blade when the lock becomes engaged. His Megaladon is the only knife with the Centerlock I believe.
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I went to his website, and, well, I sure wish that there was something about the photos and the text that actually showed how that lock is supposed to work! I looked at the description and the photos and just could not figure out what the action is supposed to do.

Can someone here explain the centerlock? Thanks.

---Jeffrey
 
Originally posted by fishface5
The REKAT rolling lock is pretty freaking strong, and very hard to accidentally disengage.
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I've never had either of my two REKAT's unlock on me.

Chris
 
The Balisong latch-lock is the strongest IMHO.
Once it is open and latched, it is essentially a fixed-blade. And it is equally strong for lefties and righties in any grip possible. Another advantage: the Balisong latch is impossible to foul or defeat with dirt, water, oil, ect.
The Axis-lock, lock-back, liner-lock, and frame-lock all can fail to lock if dirt and debris prevent the liner from engaging the tang (or the Axis bar from engaging the tang notch).
The only major drawback to the Balisong latch-lock is that it does not automatically engage, you must lock it manually or relie on your hand strength alone.

Frame-locks also suffer from the same problem that liner-locks suffer from: they are not ambidexterous. If the knife is for right-handers, it could disengage while in the left hand under certain conditions.

Another very strong lock to consider is the Walker BladeLock (found on the CRKT BladeLock and some of Walker's customs I believe).

Having said all of that...I still think a well made lock-back, liner-lock, Axis-lock, Opinal style collar-lock, and frame-lock are all fine for 99.99% of all folder tasks.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Originally posted by peacefuljeffrey
I went to his website, and, well, I sure wish that there was something about the photos and the text that actually showed how that lock is supposed to work! I looked at the description and the photos and just could not figure out what the action is supposed to do.

Can someone here explain the centerlock? Thanks.

---Jeffrey
Click to expand...

It's very hard to describe, just as it's very hard to figure out from pictures. Having it in your hands and feeling and seeing the opening action is the best way.

However, let me try to describe it. When I'm done, you might see when I think the Centerlock might be stronger than a balisong -- more metal has to be sheared to break the lock, from what I can tell.

Okay, first, the centerlock has two VERY thick liners. The liner are actually as thick as some framelock's liners. Except instead of titanium, the liners are hardened S30V -- much stronger than a titanium liner of the same thickness. Into one of the liners is milled a somewhat elliptical hole (more like a rectangle, but the short sides of the rectangle are rounded).

The blade is also S30V. Attached to the blade is a locking lug. The locking lug is exactly the shape of the hole in the liner. When the knife is locked open, that large lug drops into the hole in the liner, and that essentially is the locking mechanism. To break the lock, you'd have to shear through a huge S30V locking lug, or shear the locking lug through huge thick S30V liners. Shearing the pin on a balisong looks like a piece of cake in comparison now, right? "But wait!", you're thinking to yourself, "the locking lug is attached to the blade somehow. If it's glued or welded on, that is the weak point of the lockup". I chuckle in a superior and contemptuous tone at your assumptions :) The locking lug is actually integral to the blade. How can this be? Niemi starts with a piece of S30V that's twice as thick as the blade. Then he grinds the blade into the leftmost part, and grinds away the entire rightmost part except for the lug.

So, that's the lockup. How does it actually work? Let's assume the blade is closed, and keep in mind in both closed and open positions the blade lug drops into the hole in the scales, so the blade locks open and closed. As you thumb the lever on the handle, the front part of the knife actually opens up and spreads apart (I won't try to describe how this actually happens). When it opens up far enough, the lug comes completely out of the hole, at which point the spring propels the blade open. Now you let go of the lever, the scales come back together, and the lug drops into the hole again (actually, I should say this as: the scale drops onto the lug), locking the knife open. To close the knife, you engage the lever until the front scales spread apart enough that the lug falls out of the hole, then you close the blade, and let go of the lever, which brings the scales together again and drops the scale hole onto the lug.

Joe
 
Well the Megaladon certainly sounds tremendously strong, so maybe it is stronger than a Balisong latch-lock.

Just curious though, how much does the Megaladon weigh?
 
Originally posted by allenC
Well the Megaladon certainly sounds tremendously strong, so maybe it is stronger than a Balisong latch-lock.

Just curious though, how much does the Megaladon weigh?
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me: If I was to do a guesstimate, I would say it would weigh about the same weight as a Burger King Double Whopper with Cheese. ;) It is quite robust and heavy for such a small folder. Probably the strongest folder I have ever had the chance to examine and own. I think the blade would shear off before the lock would fail ( somebody tested this to be true to an extent ).

My picks for toughest locks in the top three are...

Arlee Niemi CenterLock

lockbacks

balisong latch
 
Originally posted by allenC
Well the Megaladon certainly sounds tremendously strong, so maybe it is stronger than a Balisong latch-lock.

Just curious though, how much does the Megaladon weigh?
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I'm not sure, it takes two of us to pick it up :)

According to Niemi's web page, it's 8 oz. It is, as you've gathered, very heavy.

I remember someone earlier in this thread asking if anyone has licensed the centerlock. If so, A.R. hasn't told me about it. He did tell me he was contacted by some interested parties after the reviews from Cliff and I came out. On the other hand, the entire system as currently designed is very expensive to manufacture, and leaves you with a heavy knife, and requires that it be an automatic. I don't think many companies would invest in such a system unless it was re-engineered a whole lot.



Joe
 
From the site it looks like the megaladon comes in one style and is an auto. Any versions street legal for Kanuckistan?
 
I’m just wondering why so much discussions cause lock strength and there are practically no discussions on stop pin and/or pivot pin strength...
Think a bit, Folks, what you are really loading using your knife properly, for cutting?
Just some casual thoughts, don’t mind please...
 
I found the axis very reliable. Looking at friction (on long time use) and that they always got steel liners for pivot strength. I´ve heard, that on some models or single pieces, the stop pin wasn´t fixed properly. Can´t tell this from the BMs i own. But the 5000 auto axis has a screwed stop pin, what i found a better thing, considering own maintance.
 
Originally posted by Sergiusz Mitin
I’m just wondering why so much discussions cause lock strength and there are practically no discussions on stop pin and/or pivot pin strength...
Think a bit, Folks, what you are really loading using your knife properly, for cutting?
Just some casual thoughts, don’t mind please...
Click to expand...

Excellent point, though I believe that when most people say "lock strength" they think of the strength of the knife in general.
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge
I'm not sure, it takes two of us to pick it up :)

According to Niemi's web page, it's 8 oz. It is, as you've gathered, very heavy.

I remember someone earlier in this thread asking if anyone has licensed the centerlock. If so, A.R. hasn't told me about it. He did tell me he was contacted by some interested parties after the reviews from Cliff and I came out. On the other hand, the entire system as currently designed is very expensive to manufacture, and leaves you with a heavy knife, and requires that it be an automatic. I don't think many companies would invest in such a system unless it was re-engineered a whole lot.



Joe
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me: Reviews by Joe, Cliff, and other well known knifemakers are right on. There were many glowing endorsements about it. Too bad Arlee is reluctant to get into making other knives. I think it was more trouble than it was worth for him to design and make this one. It is an amazing design and the workmanship is quite tight. It is definitely a unique and one of a kind knife.
 
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