folding puuko?

[Esav Benyamin]

Welcome to Bladeforums!

Eskilstuna is the name of the town that EKA is located in.

 

[DGG]

Opinels, U2.

I agree, I've never cut myself due to lack of a guard. I prefer my knives to have no guard, as I think guards get in the way. Most of my folders (primarily slipjoints and SAKS, but I do have my share of tacticals - just don't need to use 'em that much) have no guards, and I don't like 'em on fixed blades (especially when dressing out game).

I'm glad nobody has ever seriously cut themselves, but why take the risk? I have really had to work a knife back and forth in a joint or cutting the windpipe and was very glad for the blade guard. All it takes is one slip to prove its worth.

http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/FORHTML/FOR014.html

 

[TLM]

I'm glad nobody has ever seriously cut themselves, but why take the risk?

Because the risk is very small and a guard would seriously interfere with the other uses of puukko.

TLM

 

[z_bumbi]

Welcome to Bladeforums!

Thanks!

Eskilstuna is the name of the town that EKA is located in.

I known, I can allmost see the factory from my window.

I just thought that it was a "accepted" name for the ekas that I haven´t heard of earlier. Like "scandi knives" or some other strange nametags I have seen.

 

[DGG]

Because the risk is very small and a guard would seriously interfere with the other uses of puukko.

TLM

What other uses are you referring to? You lost me there.

 

[TLM]

What other uses are you referring to? You lost me there.

Like whittling, puukko is a very general purpose knife and during the last thousand years or so most people in nordic countries have come to the conclusion that for that kind of knife a guard is not needed. We might be wrong but my experience tells me that propably not.

TLM

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Eskilstuna is an other way to say EKA? There is some older brands that also have Eskilstuna in their name so just Eskilstuna isn´t the best way to say EKA.

I have a bunch of EKAs and some of the larger ones is pretty close to a real Puuko in size and handling.

hehe....oops! My bad....I have a couple of older knives stamped "Eskilstuna" that I've pretty much had all my life, so that's just a very....instinctive grasp for me.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Here's some pics of one of them. It's the first knife I ever rehandled, along side the first knife I ever made with my own ten thumbs. Remarkably crude on both accounts, I know.... The Eskilstunas sheath is a primitive style made from an old retired gunbelt. (quit holding the Bisley that's pictured with them)

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/karieann69/my_photos

 

[biogon]

Not to derail the thread...

.... but I vote all guard, all the time. At least a dropped blade, or something. I refuse to carry or use a knife for anything except kitchen duties that doesn't at least have a speed bump (preferably a full deep front guard.)

How many people here who like knives with no guards also think they can trust thin-liner linerlocks?

You people live blessed lives.

The rest of us have linerlocks that fail when a cat sneezes 50 feet away, and those same cats like to play practical jokes, causing us to momentarily lose one's grip on one's knife and have it slip forward.

Just my $0.02.

 

[TLM]

The rest of us have linerlocks that fail when a cat sneezes 50 feet away, and those same cats like to play practical jokes, causing us to momentarily lose one's grip on one's knife and have it slip forward.

That sir, is not logical at all. You are really willingly using a knife you know is failing? Cats do play jokes, that's why I am a dog person.

I have been trying to tell (very unsuccesfully from the start) that the pukko tradition differs from that of american traditional usage. So far nobody deems to willing to believe me.

Also I have been told that I and all my ancestors have been wrong for the last umpteen centuries and we should finally see the western light. (sarc.)

I was trying to tell you why a puukko has no guards and you tell me I must be wrong. OK have it your way.

I was in no way trying to tell anybody to change her usage of guarded or unguarded knife, I could care less.

TLM

I can't quite see how the balisong puukko is going to fold on you, usually I use it unlocked and have so far had no problems.

 

[Grover_Cephas]

Finnish Barrel knives...(called a "Haversack Knife" on the link)

Y'all might wanna check out this link:

http://www.gggodwin.com/page17.htm

I've never had one, but for $15.00 or so, it might be worth trying.

Holy crap; d'you know how long I've been looking for an inexpensive barrel knife repro?

I mean, it doesn't look like a _great_ barrel knife repro, but I may have to give it a try. Thanks for the link!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Glad a couple folks are finding some degree of usefulness in that link. If ya' do get one, please let me know how you like it. So far I've been able to resist, but a good review might push me over the edge myself.

 

[biogon]

TLM,

So far your argument has been, (a) I have never been cut slipping forward so you won't, and (b) a design change was not adopted by a cultural group over many thousands of years of use, so therefore it's not a needed design change.

Speaking of logical fallacies, those are both seem fair game.

Never did you say WHY it's ok that the pukko has no guard. You say it interferes with the use of a pukko in other functions, but you neglect to mention WHAT functions a guard interferes with. I have yet to see a knife with a well-designed speed bump or finger choil that interferes with either dressing or whittling, but I'm no expert.

First, you said that you've dressed moose and fish without slipping forward. Then you say you whittle.

I don't dress moose or fish, or whittle. I use my knives in other ways, during which I could indeed be likely to slip. These include thrusting and push-cutting of heavy, thick, and dense materials such as hose, cardboard, carpet, vinyl flooring, etc.

Finally, all I said in my post was that _I_ don't use knives without guards. I never said that pukkos don't need guards or guardless knives have no use. I never said you were wrong, or that people need to change.

Read more carefully next time, tyvm.

-j

 

[TLM]

Biogon:

Why not read yourself, what you claim as "my arguments" are not arguments at all, my experience was to show that it is miraculously possible to use a knife without a guard and not fall dead. The other one of your argumentatious examples was just to tell that it is not a new fad. They are called facts.

I was trying to tell you why a puukko has no guard, that has nothing to do why it would be "OK". It just is.

I told several activities where a guard would interfere with sensible use, you just don't seem to understand, not my fault. It is not any one reason but a combination of several, not really an impossible concept.

Your examples are of uses where I would use the proper tool for the job, not a knife.

I was discussing the traditional use of puukko, not a newbie missuse.

As you were definitely implying that one could not use a knife without a guard maybe you should do some exercises to help you keep some hold on the handle!

TYVM?

TLM

Who reads carefully and understands what he reads.

Saamarin rähmäkäpälät, aina opettamassa muita.

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Not to derail the thread...

.... but I vote all guard, all the time. At least a dropped blade, or something. I refuse to carry or use a knife for anything except kitchen duties that doesn't at least have a speed bump (preferably a full deep front guard.)

How many people here who like knives with no guards also think they can trust thin-liner linerlocks?

You people live blessed lives.

The rest of us have linerlocks that fail when a cat sneezes 50 feet away, and those same cats like to play practical jokes, causing us to momentarily lose one's grip on one's knife and have it slip forward.

Just my $0.02.

Seeing as I started this thread I will say- YES- I do trust thin linerlocks!!
That is because I rarely ever put any forces on the knife other than against the edge and if a liner lock fails BACKWARDS then there are greater issues than the lock. And as yet another person who uses knives every day, sometimes all day, who has never cut himself from using a knife properly- it is not a blessed life- it is educated use of a knife life! It is your choice to not use guardless knives but please do the rest of us a favour by not attacking our choices- which work for us. If a society (such as scandinavians ) has not developed guards- then maybe- maybe- it is unneeded for our uses!

Rant off!

 

[biogon]

I have been trying to tell (very unsuccesfully from the start) that the pukko tradition differs from that of american traditional usage. So far nobody deems to willing to believe me.

That's fine. Traditions are traditions and they're different. That doesn't mean that I have to follow your traditions.

Also I have been told that I and all my ancestors have been wrong for the last umpteen centuries and we should finally see the western light. (sarc.)

Show me where I said that you're wrong.

I was trying to tell you why a puukko has no guards and you tell me I must be wrong. OK have it your way.

Show me where I said you were wrong.

I just said people who use them for all cutting duties live blessed lives. That means you don't have bad luck of the kind I do.

Bad luck happens to me. I like to have lots of things to protect me from bad luck, such as car and home insurance, AXIS locks, and guards on my knives.

I was in no way trying to tell anybody to change her usage of guarded or unguarded knife, I could care less.

I said that -I- don't use unguarded knives when you jumped on me. Where did I say anything about you?

Is this caring less?

I can't quite see how the balisong puukko is going to fold on you, usually I use it unlocked and have so far had no problems.

What is a balisong puukko and where did that come from?

Why not read yourself, what you claim as "my arguments" are not arguments at all, my experience was to show that it is miraculously possible to use a knife without a guard and not fall dead. The other one of your

Thanks, but I'm going to avoid your straw man.

argumentatious examples was just to tell that it is not a new fad. They are called facts.

Can someone translate this into English for me? I'm not sure which of my examples you're talking about, what elements are fads, which statements are facts and what they have to do with the discussion.

I was trying to tell you why a puukko has no guard, that has nothing to do why it would be "OK".

Why does a puukko have no guard? You still haven't explained it... just that you dress moose and whittle. Ok... so you dress moose and whittle.

So?

It just is.

"It just is" is a valid argument for a 4 year old, not for an adult.

I told several activities where a guard would interfere with sensible use, you just don't seem to understand, not my fault. It is not any one reason but a combination of several, not really an impossible concept.

My argument: I don't use knives without some kind of guard because I have bad luck and I slip onto the blade.
Your argument: Stop telling me I'm wrong about using an unguarded knife.

My argument: I don't understand why a knife HAS to have NO guard.
Your argument: Stop telling me I'm wrong. You just don't understand.

Yes.... now... please... EXPLAIN?

If you aren't going to explain why a knife NEEDS NO GUARD, then I'm just going to put you on ignore and listen to someone else who will.

Your examples are of uses where I would use the proper tool for the job, not a knife.

What do you use to cut cardboard, carpet, hose, and vinyl?

I use a knife.

Tell me what tool I should use instead.

I was discussing the traditional use of puukko, not a newbie missuse.

Where? Quote me where you said the traditional uses and why they require no guard.

Then tell me what the newbie misuses are.

Thanks.

-j

 

[biogon]

Seeing as I started this thread I will say- YES- I do trust thin linerlocks!!
That is because I rarely ever put any forces on the knife other than against the edge and if a liner lock fails BACKWARDS then there are greater issues than the lock. And as yet another person who uses knives every day, sometimes all day, who has never cut himself from using a knife properly- it is not a blessed life- it is educated use of a knife life! It is your choice to not use guardless knives but please do the rest of us a favour by not attacking our choices- which work for us. If a society (such as scandinavians ) has not developed guards- then maybe- maybe- it is unneeded for our uses!

Rant off!

I've had a case where I was cutting in the kitchen and my wife surprised me and hugged me from behind. I put the knife out in front of me to keep her away from it, and the spine accidentally hit the microwave.

The linerlock failed and the blade collapsed.

How can education prevent accidents?

.... but I vote all guard, all the time. At least a dropped blade, or something. I refuse to carry or use a knife for anything except kitchen duties that doesn't at least have a speed bump (preferably a full deep front guard.)

I said: I PERSONALLY WILL NOT USE AN UNGUARDED KNIFE.

Now, show me where I attacked your use of guardless knives.

 

[TLM]

Biogon:

It looks like you can read, how about understanding the meaning of those. I have answered your questions, for some reason you don't seem to recognise them as such or can't understand them. Either way WOW, what an educated discusser.

How can education prevent accidents?

If you don't know maybe you should try to get one to see.

CLAK:

It is your choice to not use guardless knives but please do the rest of us a favour by not attacking our choices- which work for us. If a society (such as scandinavians ) has not developed guards

I have been trying to explain the reasons why I think knives generally have no guards here. I am not attacking anyone elses choice, as I said, I could care less what somebody else uses. I am also pointing out as an example that a whole lot of people can, for a fairly long time survive without using guarded knives. There are a lot of examples of guards on knives very close (Germany) and many examples have been dug up so they very not unknown in any way. So I think that guards are not necessary and the time span where unguarded knives have been used is something like 4 or 5 times the age of the USA. There is a difference in the way knives are traditionally (it still) used here, which propably is part of the explanation. If somebody wants to use a guarded knife that is fine with me.

And by the way my country is not part of Scandinavia ( not that it makes much difference).

TLM

 

[biogon]

*laugh*

You have such an enlightened method of education!

"If I explain something once and people don't understand, too bad. I'll just keep repeating that they didn't understand me the first time."

You say in your profile that you're an R&D engineer. I really hope that philosophy isn't a result of your education. Where I went to school, teachers with that kind of attitude don't stay teachers very long.

If anyone else wants to pitch in and help out, I'd appreciate it. There's a fundamental difference between "X survives for a very long time without requiring Y" and "X is hindered by Y" and I really am curious as to:

a) how certain tasks must be hindered by a guard and,
b) how a guardless knife (and more so, a knife whose grip actually slants INTO the edge) can be held to never slip.

Until then, the /ignore bat is my friend.

-j

 

[TLM]

Until then, the /ignore bat is my friend.

To be ignored by a great intelligence like yours is certainly a pleasure, how about removing your intelligentsia altogether.

TLM