Folding Steel?

G

GhengisChad

Joined
Dec 11, 2013
Messages
15
I am curious, and I'm trying to get all the information I can. I have a leaf spring made of (I think) 1085 carbon steel. Would heating it up, folding it, and forge welding it together, make any difference in the overall strength of a knife made of this material? What effects would folding the steel over and over have on it, if at all?
 
From what I recall the process of folding and welding a billet of steel was used to remove impurities and make a more homogeneous piece of steel. Your leaf spring is as good as it is going to get so you will be hurting the steel not helping it. You will probably be building strength in your self and if you are able to forge good welds, developing skills. Remember practice makes permanent and perfect practice makes perfect - so endeavor to do it right the first time.
 
You should use steel of a known type to practice. 1084 from the NJSB welds up nice. Then when you get good try other un-known material.
Eddie
 
Folding and re-welding the steel will add nothing. Actually it would likely reduce the carbon amount and possibly worse.
 
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You seem clearly fascinated with making Damascus. This is a good thing once you learn forging and have the experience and equipment. I'll give you the basics in getting there.

1) Build a decent forge - It should have a chamber size of 4" by 12" long at a minimum. A 1" to 1.25" blown burner will be far better for welding. The forge must be able to reach 2400F and hold that temp for an hour or more. Get a 3# forging hammer, and a 2.5# cross peen, plus a pair of Z-box tongs for 1/4" bar stock.
2) Learn to forge with those hammers - Start with simple carbon steel, like 1084, and learn to forge shapes as desired. Knowing how the steel will move under the hammer is essential to forge welding. Start with 3/4" round stock, or 1/2" to 3/4" thick flat stock. Forge hot, quit when it gets to warm, never forge cool ( hot, warm, and cool are relative to smiths....all are really hot in the normal sense of the words). The steel should be at 2100F when you start, and you quit at 1600F. That is roughly from yellow to red. Never forge when it is dull red or cooler.
3) Learn to weld with your new forging skills - Start with simple two piece welds in 1084. Place a 4" piece on a 12" piece and tack weld the ends. Use the extra length as a handle and weld the two into a two-bar billet. Draw out that billet until it is all 1/4" and make the cut at 4" from the end. fold and re-weld. Fold about five or six times. This is a simple mono-steel billet that should show light hada ( lines in the steel surface).
4) Learn to make Damascus with your new welding skills - Start with two 1.5X4"x.25" and one 16X1.5X.25" pieces of 1084, and two 1.5X4X.25" pieces of O-1. Use the long piece as the handle, and place it in the center of the billet stack. Clamp tightly in a vise and weld the ends up. From there follow the welding procedures you like and make the welds. After the weld is solid, draw and fold it seven times. You will have a nice long 640 layer bar of Damascus when done.

Don't expect this to all be easy or work the first, second, or third time...or every time once you get it down.

There is more to welding than this simple explanation, and you should read a few good books/tutorials on the subject first. The topic has been heavily discussed in Shop Talk, and on other forums, so a search should get lots of reading info.
 
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Sometimes they put a little magic dust between the layers to make a better weld . Some call it Borax !
 
bladsmth said:
You seem clearly fascinated with making Damascus. This is a good thing once you learn forging and have the experience and equipment. I'll give you the basics in getting there.

1) Build a decent forge - It should have a chamber size of 4" by 12" long at a minimum. A 1" to 1.25" blown burner will be far better for welding. The forge must be able to reach 2400F and hold that temp for an hour or more. Get a 3# forging hammer, and a 2.5# cross peen, plus a pair of Z-box tongs for 1/4" bar stock.
2) Learn to forge with those hammers - Start with simple carbon steel, like 1084, and learn to forge shapes as desired. Knowing how the steel will move under the hammer is essential to forge welding. Start with 3/4" round stock, or 1/2" to 3/4" thick flat stock. Forge hot, quit when it gets to warm, never forge cool ( hot, warm, and cool are relative to smiths....all are really hot in the normal sense of the words). The steel should be at 2100F when you start, and you quit at 1600F. That is roughly from yellow to red. Never forge when it is dull red or cooler.
3) Learn to weld with your new forging skills - Start with simple two piece welds in 1084. Place a 4" piece on a 12" piece and tack weld the ends. Use the extra length as a handle and weld the two into a two-bar billet. Draw out that billet until it is all 1/4" and make the cut at 4" from the end. fold and re-weld. Fold about five or six times. This is a simple mono-steel billet that should show light hada ( lines in the steel surface).
4) Learn to make Damascus with your new welding skills - Start with two 1.5X4"x.25" and one 16X1.5X.25" pieces of 1084, and two 2X4X.25" pieces of O-1. Use the long piece as the handle, and place it in the center of the billet stack. Clamp tightly ion a vise and weld the ends up. From there follow the welding procedures you like and make the welds. After the weld is solid, draw and fold it seven times. You will have a nice long 640 layer bar of Damascus when done.

Don't expect this to all be easy or work the first, second, or third time...or every time once you get it down.
Click to expand...

This is excellent advice and well put Stacy. I received almost the exact same starting instructions over a year ago from Burt (after asking, 'hey, that 416/W2 lamination, how you do that?) and being told to practice in this manner for a while. Then move on to WI over Carbon, etc... Just like filing before grinding can help you learn the feel of the steel and intimacy with the grind angles, this 'simple' forge welding repertoire can certainly help you feel the steel move and give you an 'eye' before moving on to presses, power hammers, rolling mills and the like.
 
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