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food for 3-5 day hikes
- Thread starter allenC
- Start date
A lot of people forget that when you are going out for three - five days that the first day you are very near home
It depends on what temperature you are hiking in, I'm used to doing spring and fall hikes in Pennsylvania, I admit, I do use freeze dried stuff for the summer, but most of the time, you can do a lot with freezing, and packing.
I often fill a stuff sack with:
In the center, two ziplock bags filled with frozen vegetarian chilli, nothing to go bad, this is for day three.
give a layer of tin foil.
wrap tightly a layer of frozen peppers, onions, and mushrooms, these go well with freeze dried chipped beef in a cassarole, on day 2 of any meat you have left over.
outside, ground beef and chicken breasts, also wrapped in a layer of tin foil. This is for the first night dinner, have hamburgers, and if kept right the chicken can be used for day 2, or eaten on the spot depending on weather. Discard if it feels warm or smells at all.
This only deals with main meals, the rest I use waxed cheese, summer sausage, nuts, dried fruit, and oatmeal etc....
I have kept chilli frozen for five days, though, on a fall campout. It was well wrapped in foil and plastic, and it was cold enough at night to refreeze it. But during the day it kept my frozen veges cold enough so I had them to mix in with my other food.
If you plan carefully and if temperatures are 40-60 degrees you can eat fresh food for several days.
Best
Todd (edgedance)
It depends on what temperature you are hiking in, I'm used to doing spring and fall hikes in Pennsylvania, I admit, I do use freeze dried stuff for the summer, but most of the time, you can do a lot with freezing, and packing.
I often fill a stuff sack with:
In the center, two ziplock bags filled with frozen vegetarian chilli, nothing to go bad, this is for day three.
give a layer of tin foil.
wrap tightly a layer of frozen peppers, onions, and mushrooms, these go well with freeze dried chipped beef in a cassarole, on day 2 of any meat you have left over.
outside, ground beef and chicken breasts, also wrapped in a layer of tin foil. This is for the first night dinner, have hamburgers, and if kept right the chicken can be used for day 2, or eaten on the spot depending on weather. Discard if it feels warm or smells at all.
This only deals with main meals, the rest I use waxed cheese, summer sausage, nuts, dried fruit, and oatmeal etc....
I have kept chilli frozen for five days, though, on a fall campout. It was well wrapped in foil and plastic, and it was cold enough at night to refreeze it. But during the day it kept my frozen veges cold enough so I had them to mix in with my other food.
If you plan carefully and if temperatures are 40-60 degrees you can eat fresh food for several days.
Best
Todd (edgedance)
Kruteze pancake mix, jerky, and instant oatmeal and instant coffee(or tea) for breakfast. one of a variety of nutrient bars, gatorade(powder), granola and a candy bar for lunch. I usually take at least one can of spam, and some maruchan noodles for one night's dinner (calories and carbs and salt). and some freeze dried dinners for the other night or two. oh, and lots of nuts and dried fruit mixed with granola for trail snacks.
Dave
------------------
A syllogism is a logical statement in three parts.
This is not a syllogism.
[This message has been edited by Kkimo (edited 02-07-2001).]
Dave
------------------
A syllogism is a logical statement in three parts.
This is not a syllogism.
[This message has been edited by Kkimo (edited 02-07-2001).]
About the making of the Cratilla, I h aven't tried selfrising flour or baking soda most likely becuase normal flour and baking soda worked first. I am sure both of your suggestince should work but i cannot say for sure. The ingrediants are relatively cheap so it is no big deal to experiment with different recipes. ALWAYS EXPERIMENT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!
I prefer pastas and similar. Cous-cous, polenta and so on. TVP in chicken, sausage and such flavors is a good light add in to many meals and cooks up right along with the pasta.
http://www.beprepared.com is a (somewhat) local supplier of dehydrated foods, TVP, and MREs.
Health food stores usually have a bulk foods section that is the godsend of hikers everywhere. Don't forget to check their prepackaged convenience foods. They have 3 minute polenta as opposed to 15 minutes, pr-cooked, then dried beans and all sorts of super convenience foods for a hiker.
Also consider sun-dried tomatoes as a way to pack some serious flavor in to a dish.
http://www.spicesetc.com carries cheese powders, saltless stock powders, and crazy things like worstershire powder. Another very handy way to pick up flavor that weighs very little, or start convenient tasty sauces.
Bread wise, I prefer pita bread. It doesn't really crush and is quite compact.
The paper recently ran an article that included these sauce recipes (pasted from another HTML page of mine)(edit note: the HTML table was bad pasted in, and the space bar columns didn't work. If I can clean up the layout, I will).
Saucy mixes (for camping)
By Jean Williams, Deseret News food editor
Pasta is a great "vehicle" for sauces. All you need to do is prepare powdered mixes before your journey to the hills.
You can easily upgrade the predictable hot-dog-on-a-stick supper and simplify heavy-backpack syndrome by packing pre-mixed baggies of ingredients and a few extra seasonings of your choice for delicious meals. Your bags of mix will be added to "vehicles" that will give you strength to ford every stream and follow those rainbows.
Ingredients considered "vehicles" include pasta, grains, flaked potatoes, rehydrated or fresh vegetables, rice couscous and bulgur.
You begin with a basic cream sauce that can transform just about anything into a delicious meal. Use this sauce as a base to build upon with other sauce options (see below).
Add a cup of water to the powdered mix, bring the slurry to a boil, simmer for a couple of minutes and before you know it, you're dining well in the wild. Each recipe makes approximately 1-1 1/2 cups of sauce, enough for two hungry hikers or one gluttonous guy.
Figure out how much powdered milk is needed to make the amount of milk called for in your basic recipe and pack it in its own sealable plastic bag. Resist the urge to dump the sauce packet in the same bag. To get a good taste without lumps, it's best to reconstitute the milk in a bowl before adding it to the mix. And be sure to add the powdered milk to the cold water, not vice versa. Stir until it's smooth.
Remember to pack some butter or margarine in a screwtop container to make the sauce rich and creamy. Oil should be carried in a small glass container.
Just because you're away from your home kitchen doesn't mean you have to eat like Jim Bridger probably ate
CREAM SAUCE
Powdered
Milk H2O butter flour
Thin sauce 4 T 1 C 1 T 1 T
medium sauce 4 T 1 C 2 T 1 T
thick sauce 4 T 1 C 3 T 1 T
Add the powdered milk to water and mix well (read the package directions because reconstitution can vary from product to product). Set aside. In a cooking pot, melt margarine over low heat. Add the flour and stir until the mixture is smooth. Add the reconstituted milk and stir constantly to prevent burning. Cook over low heat until the sauce is thick enough, usually about 5 minutes. Remove from heat and add salt and pepper to taste. makes about 1 C sauce.
SAUCE VARIATIONS
CHEESE SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 -1 C cheese, cubed or grated
Make the basic cream sauce first, then add your favorite cheese just before removing the pot from the heat. Stir until cheese is melted, but be careful: Cheese burns easily.
MUSTARD CHEESE SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 C cheese, cubed or grated
1/4 t garlic powder
1/4 t mustard powder or (1 tablespoon prepared mustard)
Dash tabasco or cayenne
Combine ingredients and stir until well-mixed and cheese is melted. Great on rehydrated potatoes.
ALFREDO SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 C Parmesan cheese
1/2 t dried basil or dill
1/4 t garlic powder
Salt and pepper to taste
Super on spaghetti.
TOMATO CREAM SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
2 T tomato base (a form of powdered tomato available from many outdoors food suppliers)
1/2 t garlic powder
1 t dried basil
Perfect on pasta.
ASIAN TOMATO SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
2 T tomato base
1/4 t ground ginger
1 T onion flakes
Soy sauce or tamari to taste
Nice on noodles.
GRAVY
1 C basic cream sauce
1 t onion flakes
1/4 t garlic powder
1 to 2 T soy sauce or tamari, or beef or chicken bouillon cube
Great on pan biscuits for breakfast, rice, rehydrated potatoes or an occasional wayward marshmallow.
CURRY SAUCE
1 T olive oil
1 T flour
2 t onion flakes
1 1/2 - 2 t curry powder
1/2 t salt
1 C water
1/4 C dried apples, chopped
1/4 C raisins
1 t brown sugar
Heat the oil and flour over low heat, stirring constantly until the mixture is smooth. Add spices, water, fruit and sugar. Bring to a boil and simmer until apples are tender. Rice, couscous or bulgur will never be the same.
ITALIAN TOMATO SAUCE
1 1/2-2 C water
1/4 C dried tomatoes, mushrooms, peppers or other vegetables (optional)
1/2 C tomato powder
1 T onion flakes
1/2 T dried parsley
1/2 t dried basil or oregano
1/2 T cooking oil
1/4 t garlic powder
Bring water to a boil in a pot with any dehydrated vegetables you're using. Add the remaining ingredients and simmer over low heat, stirring often until desired consistency. Great pizza sauce topper on English muffins.
PEANUT BUTTER GRAVY
1 C water
1/2 C peanut butter (crunchy is best)
1/4 t garlic powder
1 1/2 T soy sauce
Pinch cayenne pepper
2 T vinegar (optional)
3 T dry milk (optional)
Heat water, remove from burner and add the remaining ingredients. Reheat carefully if the need arises; peanut butter scorches easily. Excellent on noodles of any shape or size.
HOT SESAME-PEANUT SAUCE
1 C water
1/2 C peanut butter (crunchy is best)
3 T spicy sesame oil
1 1/2 t soy sauce or tamari
1 t onion flakes
1/2 t crushed hot red pepper
2 T vinegar (optional)
Heat water, remove from burner and add the remaining ingredients, stirring until well blended. Excellent served hot or cold over noodles.
As to MREs, I like them for a night or two, but at the 2.5 day point, the weight of MREs equals the wieght of dried food and cooking gear, at least for me. Beyond that time, MREs are heavier than other cooking and food items, at least for me.
Phil
[This message has been edited by phatch (edited 02-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by phatch (edited 02-07-2001).]
http://www.beprepared.com is a (somewhat) local supplier of dehydrated foods, TVP, and MREs.
Health food stores usually have a bulk foods section that is the godsend of hikers everywhere. Don't forget to check their prepackaged convenience foods. They have 3 minute polenta as opposed to 15 minutes, pr-cooked, then dried beans and all sorts of super convenience foods for a hiker.
Also consider sun-dried tomatoes as a way to pack some serious flavor in to a dish.
http://www.spicesetc.com carries cheese powders, saltless stock powders, and crazy things like worstershire powder. Another very handy way to pick up flavor that weighs very little, or start convenient tasty sauces.
Bread wise, I prefer pita bread. It doesn't really crush and is quite compact.
The paper recently ran an article that included these sauce recipes (pasted from another HTML page of mine)(edit note: the HTML table was bad pasted in, and the space bar columns didn't work. If I can clean up the layout, I will).
Saucy mixes (for camping)
By Jean Williams, Deseret News food editor
Pasta is a great "vehicle" for sauces. All you need to do is prepare powdered mixes before your journey to the hills.
You can easily upgrade the predictable hot-dog-on-a-stick supper and simplify heavy-backpack syndrome by packing pre-mixed baggies of ingredients and a few extra seasonings of your choice for delicious meals. Your bags of mix will be added to "vehicles" that will give you strength to ford every stream and follow those rainbows.
Ingredients considered "vehicles" include pasta, grains, flaked potatoes, rehydrated or fresh vegetables, rice couscous and bulgur.
You begin with a basic cream sauce that can transform just about anything into a delicious meal. Use this sauce as a base to build upon with other sauce options (see below).
Add a cup of water to the powdered mix, bring the slurry to a boil, simmer for a couple of minutes and before you know it, you're dining well in the wild. Each recipe makes approximately 1-1 1/2 cups of sauce, enough for two hungry hikers or one gluttonous guy.
Figure out how much powdered milk is needed to make the amount of milk called for in your basic recipe and pack it in its own sealable plastic bag. Resist the urge to dump the sauce packet in the same bag. To get a good taste without lumps, it's best to reconstitute the milk in a bowl before adding it to the mix. And be sure to add the powdered milk to the cold water, not vice versa. Stir until it's smooth.
Remember to pack some butter or margarine in a screwtop container to make the sauce rich and creamy. Oil should be carried in a small glass container.
Just because you're away from your home kitchen doesn't mean you have to eat like Jim Bridger probably ate
CREAM SAUCE
Powdered
Milk H2O butter flour
Thin sauce 4 T 1 C 1 T 1 T
medium sauce 4 T 1 C 2 T 1 T
thick sauce 4 T 1 C 3 T 1 T
Add the powdered milk to water and mix well (read the package directions because reconstitution can vary from product to product). Set aside. In a cooking pot, melt margarine over low heat. Add the flour and stir until the mixture is smooth. Add the reconstituted milk and stir constantly to prevent burning. Cook over low heat until the sauce is thick enough, usually about 5 minutes. Remove from heat and add salt and pepper to taste. makes about 1 C sauce.
SAUCE VARIATIONS
CHEESE SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 -1 C cheese, cubed or grated
Make the basic cream sauce first, then add your favorite cheese just before removing the pot from the heat. Stir until cheese is melted, but be careful: Cheese burns easily.
MUSTARD CHEESE SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 C cheese, cubed or grated
1/4 t garlic powder
1/4 t mustard powder or (1 tablespoon prepared mustard)
Dash tabasco or cayenne
Combine ingredients and stir until well-mixed and cheese is melted. Great on rehydrated potatoes.
ALFREDO SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
1/2 C Parmesan cheese
1/2 t dried basil or dill
1/4 t garlic powder
Salt and pepper to taste
Super on spaghetti.
TOMATO CREAM SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
2 T tomato base (a form of powdered tomato available from many outdoors food suppliers)
1/2 t garlic powder
1 t dried basil
Perfect on pasta.
ASIAN TOMATO SAUCE
1 C basic cream sauce
2 T tomato base
1/4 t ground ginger
1 T onion flakes
Soy sauce or tamari to taste
Nice on noodles.
GRAVY
1 C basic cream sauce
1 t onion flakes
1/4 t garlic powder
1 to 2 T soy sauce or tamari, or beef or chicken bouillon cube
Great on pan biscuits for breakfast, rice, rehydrated potatoes or an occasional wayward marshmallow.
CURRY SAUCE
1 T olive oil
1 T flour
2 t onion flakes
1 1/2 - 2 t curry powder
1/2 t salt
1 C water
1/4 C dried apples, chopped
1/4 C raisins
1 t brown sugar
Heat the oil and flour over low heat, stirring constantly until the mixture is smooth. Add spices, water, fruit and sugar. Bring to a boil and simmer until apples are tender. Rice, couscous or bulgur will never be the same.
ITALIAN TOMATO SAUCE
1 1/2-2 C water
1/4 C dried tomatoes, mushrooms, peppers or other vegetables (optional)
1/2 C tomato powder
1 T onion flakes
1/2 T dried parsley
1/2 t dried basil or oregano
1/2 T cooking oil
1/4 t garlic powder
Bring water to a boil in a pot with any dehydrated vegetables you're using. Add the remaining ingredients and simmer over low heat, stirring often until desired consistency. Great pizza sauce topper on English muffins.
PEANUT BUTTER GRAVY
1 C water
1/2 C peanut butter (crunchy is best)
1/4 t garlic powder
1 1/2 T soy sauce
Pinch cayenne pepper
2 T vinegar (optional)
3 T dry milk (optional)
Heat water, remove from burner and add the remaining ingredients. Reheat carefully if the need arises; peanut butter scorches easily. Excellent on noodles of any shape or size.
HOT SESAME-PEANUT SAUCE
1 C water
1/2 C peanut butter (crunchy is best)
3 T spicy sesame oil
1 1/2 t soy sauce or tamari
1 t onion flakes
1/2 t crushed hot red pepper
2 T vinegar (optional)
Heat water, remove from burner and add the remaining ingredients, stirring until well blended. Excellent served hot or cold over noodles.
As to MREs, I like them for a night or two, but at the 2.5 day point, the weight of MREs equals the wieght of dried food and cooking gear, at least for me. Beyond that time, MREs are heavier than other cooking and food items, at least for me.
Phil
[This message has been edited by phatch (edited 02-07-2001).]
[This message has been edited by phatch (edited 02-07-2001).]
A lot of good ideas. As this is a survival site and I like to travel light:
For three days you can go without any food, you just need the normal amount of water. After that I consider most suggestions here good especially the tuna sounds excellent, you get high grade protein and fish fat and it is tasty if made well. The older I get the less I like to carry water in any other form than pure, in most places where I trek you dont even need a filter and some those are quite handy if necessary.
To say the truth as I was younger (<35) I could not travel without eating every day but for some reason my body changes to fat metabolism quite readily nowadays (maybe a bit longer belt has something to do with that...)
TLM
For three days you can go without any food, you just need the normal amount of water. After that I consider most suggestions here good especially the tuna sounds excellent, you get high grade protein and fish fat and it is tasty if made well. The older I get the less I like to carry water in any other form than pure, in most places where I trek you dont even need a filter and some those are quite handy if necessary.
To say the truth as I was younger (<35) I could not travel without eating every day but for some reason my body changes to fat metabolism quite readily nowadays (maybe a bit longer belt has something to do with that...)
TLM
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2000
- Messages
- 11
TLM, trekking for three days without food may be a good demonstration for survival training, or as a way to increase your tolerance of discomfort. But, as a training technique, it has several disadvantages. Under strenuous exercise your body releases more cortisol. Cortisol causes an increase in tissue breakdown. You might hope or wish that under fasting conditions your body would prefer to breakdown your fat stores for energy, but in fact it will somewhat indiscriminately break down muscle as well. No doubt you will lose weight in three days of hiking without food. Some of that weight will be hard-earned muscle, though, which I don't want to lose, and which most people tend to lose as they age any way. Also, by the end of the three days of fasting your body will be in famine-mode, and the food that you start eating at that point will be preferentially stored as body fat, and, as yo-yo dieters all across the U.S. can atest, you increase your chances for gaining back more weight than you lost. Hungry hiking might have some positive mental training aspects, but burning muscle every time you go out is a big enough drawback to convince me to carry the weight of food.
------------------
"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is Reason."
-Thomas Paine
------------------
"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is Reason."
-Thomas Paine
A point made. I have read very contradictory information on this. Some claim exactly as you said, some say that if intensity is low enough you burn fat before muscle. My weight loss is typically very low (atleast the few times I have weighted)and I don't feel exceptionally hungry afterwards. It started because I quite often loose my appetite totally during the first days, I once din't eat for the first three days and then decided that more would not be a good idea.
I suspect that people react differently, on the few articles I have read on cold adaptation and fat metabolism there seems to be a lot of variation, some of it apparently genetic some can be acquired (one way not recommended is alcoholism, though the cause/effect was not quite clear).
Thinking of the conditions lets say 15000 years back, an adaptation to be able to clear short periods without food would make some sense.
TLM
I suspect that people react differently, on the few articles I have read on cold adaptation and fat metabolism there seems to be a lot of variation, some of it apparently genetic some can be acquired (one way not recommended is alcoholism, though the cause/effect was not quite clear).
Thinking of the conditions lets say 15000 years back, an adaptation to be able to clear short periods without food would make some sense.
TLM
My point is often people going on hiking trips think only in terms of food that will survive forever, when they know darn well that they have to have dinner thier first and second night out. You can eat a lot of good fresh-frozen food if you pack right, and it often suprises my hiking partners who have some freeze dried lentils and a box of pilot biskets, when I make up a nice chicken stir fry. And the weight cost is about the same, you give a little up for ice, but you can reclaim the water, and it's cold (mnnnn).
Best,
Todd (edgedance)
Best,
Todd (edgedance)
I am not saying that everyone should go for three days without eating, I can do that without discomfort and so far without other effects, I also expect that quite a few can do it if they want. But if you can't go even one day without "a good meal" maybe one should not leave the couch or go too far from the fridge. I am not even talking survival here.
TLM
I hear what you're saying, but after a day of hiking you should be pretty hungry (if you're putting any effort in it you will burn alot of calories. I know I do).
I was referring to the possibility of a mishap such as: you hike out with nothing to eat all day, then maybe you fall while crossing a stream or something and lose your pack and break a bone (or some other lousy situation). As if things were not bad enough you would have really made them worse by fasting all day and burning lots of calories. I work at a hospital and it is not unusual for us to treat folks for low blood-sugar and low potassium because of fasting (mostly homeless or teenage girls).
Even with one meal a day, you will lose weight while camping and hiking. Unless you "tail-gate camp".
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 02-14-2001).]
I was referring to the possibility of a mishap such as: you hike out with nothing to eat all day, then maybe you fall while crossing a stream or something and lose your pack and break a bone (or some other lousy situation). As if things were not bad enough you would have really made them worse by fasting all day and burning lots of calories. I work at a hospital and it is not unusual for us to treat folks for low blood-sugar and low potassium because of fasting (mostly homeless or teenage girls).
Even with one meal a day, you will lose weight while camping and hiking. Unless you "tail-gate camp".
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 02-14-2001).]
Not necessarily and no I am not hungry after 25 km of no-trail walking with 15 kg backpack. It is really a matter of getting used to it.
The examples you are talking about are undernourished in the first place, not a proper comparison.
Ask anyone who has been in the army, in any non-standard operation (come to think in normal also) the supply chain breaks down and you have to spend various amounts of time without eating and still go on doing what you are supposed to do. And that is often somewhat strenuous. People do it all the time without dying off instantly. At least when there isn't any soldiers can't complain about the quality, quantity is another matter.
I still think the capability is in most people without any extra excercise. There certainly is a limit beyond which is not healthy to go but it is not one day.
TLM
The examples you are talking about are undernourished in the first place, not a proper comparison.
Ask anyone who has been in the army, in any non-standard operation (come to think in normal also) the supply chain breaks down and you have to spend various amounts of time without eating and still go on doing what you are supposed to do. And that is often somewhat strenuous. People do it all the time without dying off instantly. At least when there isn't any soldiers can't complain about the quality, quantity is another matter.
I still think the capability is in most people without any extra excercise. There certainly is a limit beyond which is not healthy to go but it is not one day.
TLM
I did serve for 6 years in the Army and have experienced what you described more than once. When you had no food you just worked hungry. I did'nt say you would die without food for a couple of days, I said I would'nt advise it. It just is'nt a smart thing to do. No Soldier I ever knew WILLINGLY passed up a meal in the field (except the MRE Tuna with noodles!!! I would rather go hungry!).
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 02-15-2001).]
[This message has been edited by allenC (edited 02-15-2001).]