Fool's dagger project (final pic added)

Richard338

Richard338

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May 3, 2005
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I will document a dagger build that I've been slowly planning ever since getting inspired by Bruce Bump's Tomb Raider piece a few years ago.
One image of that piece showing a close up of the trapped ball pommel is here.
uYtYZJ7.png

I recently posted a collection of mostly Coop photos of more than 60 daggers that I also used for inspiration/discouragement... #28 shows more shots of the Tomb Raider.
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/celebration-of-daggers.1762400/
I did get some steel balls plated in gold, but to change things up a little I recent picked up a pyrite sphere (20mm) that has some character (imperfections) and lends the name to this project.
zifLH8t.jpg

I am using all three of my pieces of Devin Thomas damascus for this project as well as a nice piece of interior mammoth from Mark Knapp. (my wife knows that all of the materials totaled well under $100)
So far the profile of the blade is in spirograph.
4ailDxM.jpg

The guard was made from a thick piece of ladder.
gqHoLzC.jpg

MyeQ92w.jpg

The pommel and spacer are preliminarily shaped to fit the mammoth.
These were lathe turned from a piece of twist damascus.
nrNitMe.jpg

The petals still need to be cut in, but the cup perfectly accommodates the ball.
This part is tricky. I need to heat treat the pommel in order to obtain good contrast in the etch, but it needs to be tempered way down to spring, in order to be able to bend the petals around the ball to trap it...
The mammoth has its basic profile, but will get flutes and twisted gold wire etc.
PNRNiTi.jpg
 
If those plated steel balls are not held rigidly in the pommel, the plating will wear off very quickly.
If the ball doesn't move and is protected from wear, they will be fine.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
If those plated steel balls are not held rigidly in the pommel, the plating will wear off very quickly.
If the ball doesn't move and is protected from wear, they will be fine.
Click to expand...
AVigil said:
Bill is right.

You must always protect your balls.
Click to expand...

Yes, Bruce was kind enough to give me a few pointers. I'm using the pyrite sphere instead in any case. I used the tap drill as the pilot for the larger drill to make the cup. Now I can tune the length of the threaded rod to secure the pommel but also to snug the ball in place.
The ball should be nice and snug...
 
I might suggest a different ball material. Besides being quite soft and fragile, pyrite degrades as well as gives off an acidic sulfur vapor. I would suggest agate or marble.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
I might suggest a different ball material. Besides being quite soft and fragile, pyrite degrades as well as gives off an acidic sulfur vapor. I would suggest agate or marble.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'll look into it some more. I've had some specimens for at least 5 years that appear pretty stable so far...
 
I did the preliminary shaping of the pommel petals to trap the ball.
Actually, I stopped thinking about flowers and petals and looked at various crowns from different countries.
In the end I decided on a pattern of 5 fleur de lis. The points won't get in the way when they are bent closer together.
These features are 0.035" thick of AEB-L based damascus.
I know that this needs to be heat treated to get good contrast in the etch, but I'm a little worried that it will warp in all directions.
Perhaps they could be woven with wire to help support them... I'll have to ask Brad at Peters'. I'd hate to lose the material and all the work so far.
Next I will put 5 flutes into the mammoth.
9Mn0ecG.jpg
 
Very cool build that you are doing. Way beyond my ability. Had a good chuckle when you mentioned the cost!

I have a great wife because she has no interest in the tools in my shop. It took her three years to ask if my laguna bandsaw didn't used to be green (an old General 490). I was able to honestly tell her the laguna had been in the shop for years!
 
Randydb said:
Very cool build that you are doing. Way beyond my ability. Had a good chuckle when you mentioned the cost!

I have a great wife because she has no interest in the tools in my shop. It took her three years to ask if my laguna bandsaw didn't used to be green (an old General 490). I was able to honestly tell her the laguna had been in the shop for years!
Click to expand...
Thanks. It might be beyond my ability too... I hope I don't find out the hard way.
 
Update: The blade, guard, spacer and pommel are all out for heat treat.
I have been working on the handle.
Steve Culver has some nice tutorials online for this, which I followed with a few variations.
First I made about 4' of twisted gold wire (picture hook in a drill).
ASeLrYA.jpg

I made a pattern to mark the flutes, deciding on 5 flutes.
YFrMJ0L.jpg

I marked 5 holes and drilled them, very carefully stopping to clean and avoid heat.
I decided that each flute would rotate 3/5 of the way around and used dental floss to mark it in pencil.
sDjYLk4.jpg

I used files to scribe the lines, then a hacksaw blade to cut the square channels for the wire.
Once installed, the wire will emerge from the holes near the bottom and terminate through the slots at the top.
I then cut the flutes between the channels.
QaKq3db.jpg

Finally, making all the flutes as even as possible I gave it some shoe-shine style polishing running through some high grits.
I finished with 3M 4000 grit pink polishing paper. It is amazing the sudden rich change in tone that wasn't present even at 2000 grit with Rhynowet paper.
I will wait until fit-up to install the wire, but I'm really pleased with how it came out. No major screw-ups after several tedious steps.
tjJeDGs.jpg

mQEj74w.jpg
 
Richard338 said:
Update: The blade, guard, spacer and pommel are all out for heat treat.
I have been working on the handle.
Steve Culver has some nice tutorials online for this, which I followed with a few variations.
First I made about 4' of twisted gold wire (picture hook in a drill).
ASeLrYA.jpg

I made a pattern to mark the flutes, deciding on 5 flutes.
YFrMJ0L.jpg

I marked 5 holes and drilled them, very carefully stopping to clean and avoid heat.
I decided that each flute would rotate 3/5 of the way around and used dental floss to mark it in pencil.
sDjYLk4.jpg

I used files to scribe the lines, then a hacksaw blade to cut the square channels for the wire.
Once installed, the wire will emerge from the holes near the bottom and terminate through the slots at the top.
I then cut the flutes between the channels.
QaKq3db.jpg

Finally, making all the flutes as even as possible I gave it some shoe-shine style polishing running through some high grits.
I finished with 3M 4000 grit pink polishing paper. It is amazing the sudden rich change in tone that wasn't present even at 2000 grit with Rhynowet paper.
I will wait until fit-up to install the wire, but I'm really pleased with how it came out. No major screw-ups after several tedious steps.
tjJeDGs.jpg

mQEj74w.jpg
Click to expand...
That came out great!
 
Well, I got the parts back from HT.
The blade, guard and spacer are all at 60 HRC.
The pommel cup was tempered way back to 45 HRC (to help it flex enough to squeeze the ball in and then bend the points around it).
I was worried about getting less contrast in the etch but it looks just as sharp as the guard.
(now to find the nerve to try to get the ball in there without breaking it...)
YLxUA7y.jpg
 
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