For Sale "Protocol"

[James Falor]

I'm just wondering what you all think about the rules, or lack-there of, on selling knives through the Knife Exchange. I recently posted a reply to a "for sale" ad in-which the last post by the seller was "available again!" I jumped on the post and said "Mine!" and immediately followed-up with an e-mail. The seller told me that he was giving some other person "2 hours to come through" after which the knife would be mine. About 10 hours later I e-mailed him again and was told there was "one other person who e-mailed me before you" and--again--that he was giving him until 2PM to "come-through." I waited until appox. 9 PM EST and e-mailed the seller AGAIN and did not hear from him until the NEXT morning when I received an e-mail saying "Sorry Jim, ------- got it." I was MORE than a little ticked. I told the guy his comm. skills were "lacking," and that I was not at all happy. Anyway, what is your opinion? I know that ultimately a seller can sell to whomever they wish BUT, considering I have NEVER had a negative selling OR buying experience and have ZERO "bad feedback"--shouldn't it be the person who POSTS TO THE FORUM who gets 1st crack?!? Thanks--Jim Falor USMC

 

[shaldag]

In my opinion, because he apparently wasn't exactly straight with you, I would not deal with him again. All any of us have is our word.

 

[JR42]

I've never had an experience similar to yours, but I think if the seller doesn't give explicit instructions on how to contact him (e.g. e-mail only), then whoever is first by timestamp to say "I'll take it" should get the item.

As you noted, everyone is free to conduct business in whatever fashion one wishes.

Jeremy

 

[Esav Benyamin]

I would be very reluctant to deal again with someone who was so "slippery", but ya never know. It might have been one of those deals where a friend asked him to hold off on selling until he could get his act together.

It's generally accepted that first to email or PM "I'll take it!" and not the first to post on the forum, gets it. The email should explicitly state you will take it, confirm the asking price, and give your own forum name, name and address.

I know it's no consolation, but protocol says only one thing: the seller says when it's a deal. Then the buyer gets his turn when the item shows up, if he's happy with it or not. Anything else is not protocol, it's courtesy, which -- in this case -- may have been lacking.

I've had deals that looked like they were a lock and then fell through. It happens. I didn't feel robbed, of a knife that was never mine. I chalked it up to misunderstanding, not bad intentions. It is NOT worth aggravating yourself over. (There are STILL too many other knives out there to buy!)

 

[James Falor]

I agree with you that it's not worth getting too worked-up about HOWEVER, having spoken to a few other WELL-respected members of BF, it turns-out that this is a pattern with this guy. It's not like I just posted on the Forum and expected it to be a done-deal. I had this guy tell me THREE times that I was going to get it after a certain length of time! Those times came, went, came, went, etc...and then there were "new" people who suddenly were ahead of me. I was polite, and straight-forward about my earnestness to buy this knife and I have a sneaking-suspicion that I was simply "out-bid" by someone else via e-mail. It all worked out fine for me (another member whose concept of time is much more in-line with REALITY) sold me HIS blade for 45.00 less. You're a moderator and I'm sure have much more experience with this than I do and I respect your opinion. I just think that if it's NOT the For Sale Forum, that is out there for ALL to see (unlike e-mail) that determines who is "first," in offering to purchase, then this becomes more like an unofficial way to start an "e-mail-auction" than anything else! Thanks for the input everyone. Jim Falor USMC

 

[SIFU1A]

after a few experiences like yours were i thought i had gotten the first offer to buy in and found out someone else had beaten me to it via email i rarely post in the thread anymore i just email the offer to buy, since the order on the thread matters not i rarely bother. on most items i am sure that works out fine as most are quite willing to sell something and dont care who buys it as long as they get there money, if they are wanting to sell an exclusive something or another thats popular most notify there buds via email anyway before they post to sell.

 

[silenthunterstudios]

At first I thought, first come, first served. Then I thought that the guy probably was keeping all of his options open until he received payment. If it was me, I would've said that there was a pending sale, but if that fell through, you would be whatever place on the list and leave it at that, I've been lead on before, and I try my damndest not to do that.

 

[Fastlane]

There are many different situations when a knife is offered for sale. It could be for sale with no trades at a given price, in which case the first "I'll take it" should prevail. So where does that intent to purchase need to be? Some sellers require a post in the thread, which pretty much lets them off the hook...there it is, Mr.X posted first. Maybe the knife is a given price OBO, which could also mean best offer above the posted price. Now that might be against some forum rules which could make it turn into an auction to the highest bidder.

So what happens when we see an "I'll take it" in the forum, but the PM or email has some questions to be answered before they will really take it? Like "what steel is in the blade?", or "Will you take PayPal?" (even though the ad might specifically say money order only). So the seller replies to the PM or email and waits to find out if the "I'll take it" really means just that. In the meantime another buyer emails with a request where to send payment and a shipping address.

I'm sure if you haven't experienced situations like these firsthand, you can come up with a few possibilities of your own. If the knife is for sale or trade, that opens up another can of worms. There is a full price offer to purchase a knife and before the seller replies "SOLD", there is a trade offer for a knife the buyer has been wanting for years in exchange for his knife. Does the full price offer take precedent because it was first? What about after the seller replies "SOLD" and before the payment is sent? What about after the payment is sent and returned in order to accept the trade offer? If the money order wasn't cashed, is it a legally binding deal?

One time I sent the payment for a rare knife and the seller replied, after the payment arrived, that he could not find the knife. He said maybe one of his friends had borrowed it and he had torn his house apart looking for it. He promptly sent back the payment, but who knows what really happened. I didn't get mad or accuse him of selling it to someone else for more money. Maybe he just changed his mind. Maybe it was stolen as he suspected.

There may be no simple or uniform solution that can be spelled out in a forum's policy. We still need to depend on the integrity of the buyer and seller in every transaction whether there are specific rules or not. That works out most of the time and will continue to do so.

 

[GigOne]

Just because a buyer posts on a thread first or rifles off an e-mail. . . .DOES NOT mean that they were first in line.

A sale being contingent or mandatory based on a buyer "NEVER having a negative selling OR buying experience and ZERO "bad feedback". . . .is humorous at best. Even though someone has sold knives on this forum doesn't make that person a GOOD seller. It could mean that the previous buyers didn't want to fool with leaving "any" feedback. For example, of all the knives that you've sold (James Falor) on this forum. . .only two people have taken the time to start a thread giving you a thumbs up.

I honestly don't see the problem in giving a buyer 2, 4, 8 or 48 hours to respond to an e-mail confirming that they do or do not want the knife.

NOT EVERYONE lives next to their computer. It's an amazing thought, but some people just AREN'T able to check their e-mail every 20 minutes, every hour, every four hours or even every eight hours. NOR are they clock watchers.

I also saw the thread that you're referring to and I thought that your last two posts, on that thread, were pretty cheezy. . . .and posting, "I scored another XXX with a black blade at about 45.00 less than you were asking" on that thread was *cough* ! But that's just me.

You don't KNOW FOR SURE how many people were before you ? Nor do you KNOW FOR SURE that you were "out-bid via auctions" in e-mails, do you ?

Nothing like throwing out assumptions and innuendo, eh ?

 

[silenthunterstudios]

I gotta agree with the bastid right above me.

 

[Fastlane]

To complicate matters, there are sometimes ads on more than one forum when a knife is for sale. Some people work 20 hour shifts, like EMTs, FD, and others.

 

[GigOne]

I agree with you that it's not worth getting too worked-up about HOWEVER, having spoken to a few other WELL-respected members of BF, it turns-out that this is a pattern with this guy.

Forgot to add. . . .stepping up with this is poor form.


In the same notion. . . .I could post something to the effect that, "I've spoken to a few other WELL-respected members of BF, it turns-out that James Falor is a BLAH. . . .BLAH. . .BLAH. . . .BLAH."

Nothing more than deceptive, misleading and unsubstantiated information.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

On Bladeforums, we can control auctions, to some extent. One thing we're looking to stop is the aspect of frenzied bidding against each other, publically encouraged. But once a sale goes to email, there is nothing we can do about it. So there's nothing we want to do about it.

And as mentioned, these ads often get posted on several forums at the same time, leaving room for some confusion, with no ill intent meant.

As far as first posted or first emailed, I'll tell you, I don't sell many knives, but there are a few members here to whom I would not sell if they were the only ones offering to buy. And there are others I'd sell to even if someone else got in an earlier offer, because some people here are my personal friends, and that's just the way it's going to be. Of course, once I tell someone he's got it, I won't go back on that.

It's just not worth getting upset about in any case. Send the money if you get the nod, thank them anyway and congratulate them on the sale if someone else gets it. Keep smiling

 

[Progunner]

I've never had an experience similar to yours, but I think if the seller doesn't give explicit instructions on how to contact him (e.g. e-mail only), then whoever is first by timestamp to say "I'll take it" should get the item.

As you noted, everyone is free to conduct business in whatever fashion one wishes.

Jeremy

I tend to go by timestamp myself. It gives a bit of a time line to work with.

 

[wolfmann601]

First and foremost Jim, your facts are not accurate. It was I selling the knife and you were bthe third person to say you wanted to buy it. I told you I was giving number one two hours and he did contact me within the two hours. The fact that I did not contact you immediately is irrelevant.

But most importantly: I WILL SELL TO WHOEVER I FREAKING CHOSE TO!!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DO NOT BUY MY SHIIT!!!

PS. As I do not sell often it could NOT be a pattern. I have never had one complaint except yours and I take yours as frivolous.

Continue with your bullshiit Mr. Falor, continue...............

 

[wolfmann601]

I just have got to add in my defense that the knife was posted on three forums. falor was moved from the three slot to the number two slot because the number two was an unknown on BFC. The fact that he was able to score a knife for $40 less is wonderful. At NO TIME was Falor told the knife was his!

The knife BTW was listed at $225 and sold for $225. The number five guy offered me $250 but was turned down. In the future if I have a knife for sale and Falor offers me $10,000 I will tell him to go phuck himself. I give away more knives than I sell and I NEVER auction knives for sale, never.

Just more unsubstaniated fodder by Falor to make him look the victim

OK?:grumpy:

 

[James Falor]

First off Gig--check the freakin' ARCHIVES! I've had MANY more than 2 people leave me VERY positive feedback. Second, who the heck are you? Were you here getting my e-mails? I love "armchair quarterbacks." As to your proposition that my claim to have scored one at 45.00 dollars less (not 40) being "cough"--check with Fastlane. And Wolfmann, I'm afraid you don't know JACK. You DID tell me TWICE that after a set number of hours the knife was headed to me. I had 2 other people tell me they were "jacked-around" by you, that your e-mail suddenly stopped working even though you still were posting to the for sale thread. Maybe not enough to set-up a pattern but enough to raise a flag in my book. Finally, I didn't NAME you because I was TRYING to give you the benefit of the doubt, you jumped in here on your own. I won't buy any of your "SHI-T" and certainly won't sell you any of my knives. If you had 5 people ahead of me then please, accept my apologies. It IS absolutely your right to sell to whomever you want. I started this thread to try and LEARN if there WAS any accepted set of "guidelines" for posting/e-mailing/etc...I now know there aren't! Jim USMC

 

[ZZJake]

Better watch out,Ira's famous for his 2 x 4, and I for one, will stand behind him to the end.

 

[GigOne]

First off Gig--check the freakin' ARCHIVES! I've had MANY more than 2 people leave me VERY positive feedback.

Go back and re-read what I posted. Afterwards, if you're still unable to understand what I posted. . . .I'll try to talk slower for you.

Second, who the heck are you?

ROTFLMAO

I love "armchair quarterbacks."

Let’s see. . . .your very first posted stated, “Anyway, what is your opinion?” How soon we forget.

If you can’t stand the response. . . .DON’T ASK !

Lordy. . . .I hope that you didn’t expect everyone to “take your side.” LMAO And don't let it get your panties in a bind.

As to your proposition that my claim to have scored one at 45.00 dollars less (not 40) being "cough"--check with Fastlane.

Let me make this clearer for you. . . .

“cough = BS.”

Now. . .go back and insert BS for cough. Maybe you’ll get the drift.

I had 2 other people tell me. . . […] Maybe not enough to set-up a pattern. . .

You got that straight !

You’re just looking for an excuse to lay blame.

I started this thread to try and LEARN if there WAS any accepted set of "guidelines" for posting/e-mailing/etc...I now know there aren't!

Kinda funny. . . .seems like the vast majority of folks trading and selling are following guidelines, without problems.

 

[James Falor]

Maybe I need to slow down for YOU oh giggly-one. My response to "check with Fastlane" as to my claim of buying a black-blade LCC for 45 less means HE SOLD IT TO ME. So your BS is exactly that--YOURS. Aslo, I appreciate EVERYONE'S replies--that had something constructive to say like Esav, Sifu1, Fastlane, Pro-Gunner, Shalag, and JR42. You Gigi, seem to just want to jump-down someone's throat. ALL my e-mails, INCLUDING my last post to Wolfmann's thread were polite--and CAN YOU read? My last words were congratulating him on the sale! (Not now since he decided to call me names too) As far as people starting "thumbs-up" threads for me, maybe they are deleted after a certain time but I can think of probably 15-20 to start with. But Gig, I realize now that you're a force to be reckoned with--and Wolfmann too! Lord help me--I've disturbed the GODS of BF! What's an old, former Marine M-60 gunner/"Designated Marksman" to do!? I guess I'll have to lay-up all night ttrreemmbblliinng! Meanwhile, go pull those panties out of your nether-regions and take some blood-pressure medication! Talk about cry-babies!