For the user, is "sharp" the major factor?

[Piddling]

Over the weekend, I went out into the woods to test some of my knives. I used about a dozen or so of them of all different flavors/styles/steels/grinds/etc. I used them all just to whittle, make shavings, feather sticks, de-limbing small trees, etc. I just wanted a general workout of a knife on wood in the woods.

I discovered something that is not new - wood don't care what kind of steel the knife is made of - the grind - etc. I never heard a block of wood say, "Oh man, this is MagnaCut we had better let this blade go thru like butter" or "Hey, this is 8A steel with a flat grind, let's really be tough and make it hard for him to butcher us" No - "sharpness' of each knife controlled how easily each knife cut. Now, you say this is obvious - and it is - but what most of us talk about when contemplating the purchase of a knife is all the extraneous items about the knife. Yet when we are using a knife - the major factor, to me at least, is the level of sharpness. Poor grade steel, yet sharpened to a "T" was much better a cutting things the highest priced steel just medium sharp.

Now I assume all of us sharpen our own knives to keep them useful. So it appears to me that all of our talk about all the "best manufacture", "best steel", "best grind", etc is really secondary to the true user. These may be the most important criteria to the owners of "safe queens" or those that just want to brag about certain knives. But sharpness (after we use it out of the box) is dependent upon us - our ability to sharpen/re-sharpen a blade.

Agree or no?

 

[jbmonkey]

geometry plays a big part.....

 

[gooeytek]

cutting performance for the task at hand, and how long it can do it for.

 

[jackknife]

I discovered something that is not new - wood don't care what kind of steel the knife is made of - the grind - etc. I never heard a block of wood say, "Oh man, this is MagnaCut we had better let this blade go thru like butter" or "Hey, this is 8A steel with a flat grind, let's really be tough and make it hard for him to butcher us" No - "sharpness' of each knife controlled how easily each knife cut. Now, you say this is obvious - and it is - but what most of us talk about when contemplating the purchase of a knife is all the extraneous items about the knife. Yet when we are using a knife - the major factor, to me at least, is the level of sharpness. Poor grade steel, yet sharpened to a "T" was much better a cutting things the highest priced steel just medium sharp.


Agree or no?

Totally agree!!!!

You've touched on the gorilla in the room, that the wood being cut, the rope/twine/cord you need to cut, the box to be opened and later broke down for the recycle bin, doesn't give a hoot what you're cutting it with. The only thing that matters is how sharp is it? I've had cheap/low cost knives output some very expensive knives. Blade geometry matters a great dealt the degree that in some instances a low cost Opinel number 8 will out cut something much higher in price because of blade stock and grind. Thick wedgie blades may be good for fantasy escapades of prying open a tank hatch or surviving the Amazon jungle, but for everyday use like opening plastic blister packaging I'll take a thin blade that cuts good.

To me, if it doesn't slice and dice good, I have no use for it.

 

[DocJD]

Agree or no?

Yes...and no !

The sharp edge is "where the rubber hits the road", for bladed tool function .

But just like tires on a vehicle , there's a lot more going on to allow those tires to do meaningful work .

Even the carry clip and /or sheath is part of a system that determines the overall functional value .

You can cut stuff with a razor blade in a pinch grip , or a shard of glass . But there are better tools for the job .

 

[DeadboxHero]

You'll come full circle when you start realizing that geometry, heat treatment and steel are a big factor, not just the sharpening.

Most people are only buying knives on how they look or what color the scales are.

 

[Kettleman]

I don’t own or carry a knife that wont slice. But just as important is its ability to continue to slice which brings us to newer better steels especially in the stainless realm . You also forgot heat treat, geometry and overall build quality and even comfort and ergos during use.

Sharp is just one part of what makes a good knife.

 

[coolbreezy37]

Toughness is number one for me, followed closely by edge retention and ease of sharpening.

 

[whereismyknife]

Hardness, toughness, and geometry. These are the most important points. For example, my favorite knife to use in the jungle, the cudeman mt-5, has a great geometry. He has an average steel (böhler n695). He's doing an amazing job.

 

[Old Biker]

Now I assume all of us sharpen our own knives to keep them useful. So it appears to me that all of our talk about all the "best manufacture", "best steel", "best grind", etc is really secondary to the true user. These may be the most important criteria to the owners of "safe queens" or those that just want to brag about certain knives. But sharpness (after we use it out of the box) is dependent upon us - our ability to sharpen/re-sharpen a blade.

Agree or no?

No I don't agree that best steel, best manufacture, and best grind are secondary. True a knife needs to be sharp to preform well. But it also needs to stay sharp, at least long enough to finish the job. I prefer it to stay sharp for multiple jobs. Staying sharp is controlled by the manufacturer, what steel, and grind they used, along with how well they heat treated it. Sharpness isn't a factor I consider when buying a knife. I will sharpen any knife I am going to use. Who made the knife, what steel it is made from, and what kind of geometry the blade has, are major factors in my decision to buy a knife. Because I don't want to spend all my time sharpening.

O.B.

 

[CleverSloth]

I agree that it's a factor but it's not the only factor. One major part of how sharp your knife ends up being is edge retention. How much wear a given task puts on your blade matters. A knife that isn't properly heat treated might snap or chip when notching wood. Heat treat, steel, edge geometry all play into both toughness and edge retention. If sharpness is the only factor you care about look into carrying box cutters. For some people that might be an ideal solution, for me other factors like grip, ergonomics, versatility and to a lesser degree even looks matter too.

 

[Delgadonine]

Skill with a knife unites all the variables. Of the variables edge geometry and sharpness are equally important as they are they are not mutually exclusive.

Every use of a knife improves one's skill and one's understanding of those variables.

 

[scdub]

Disagree - unless the “user” is making sashimi.

Geometry, ergonomics, size and weight are all more important than a high level of sharpness when I’m using a knife.

You were doing tasks from making shavings to de-limbing in your testing. I’d rather make shavings with a barely sharp, small, thin blade and chop limbs with a barely sharp, long machete as opposed to doing both tasks with a very sharp machete or very sharp small knife…

 

[dundak]

Big thing for me is ease of sharpening too. I don't want to have to carry special gear. From fine file, butcher's steel or whatever is in the junk drawer. Any gear should be able to put an edge on it.

 

[kafolarbear]

Over the weekend, I went out into the woods to test some of my knives. I used about a dozen or so of them of all different flavors/styles/steels/grinds/etc. I used them all just to whittle, make shavings, feather sticks, de-limbing small trees, etc. I just wanted a general workout of a knife on wood in the woods.

I discovered something that is not new - wood don't care what kind of steel the knife is made of - the grind - etc. I never heard a block of wood say, "Oh man, this is MagnaCut we had better let this blade go thru like butter" or "Hey, this is 8A steel with a flat grind, let's really be tough and make it hard for him to butcher us" No - "sharpness' of each knife controlled how easily each knife cut. Now, you say this is obvious - and it is - but what most of us talk about when contemplating the purchase of a knife is all the extraneous items about the knife. Yet when we are using a knife - the major factor, to me at least, is the level of sharpness. Poor grade steel, yet sharpened to a "T" was much better a cutting things the highest priced steel just medium sharp.

Now I assume all of us sharpen our own knives to keep them useful. So it appears to me that all of our talk about all the "best manufacture", "best steel", "best grind", etc is really secondary to the true user. These may be the most important criteria to the owners of "safe queens" or those that just want to brag about certain knives. But sharpness (after we use it out of the box) is dependent upon us - our ability to sharpen/re-sharpen a blade.

Agree or no?

Ive noticed this, my 0.18” thick Winkler (80CrV2 steel) carves wood a lot easier than my 0.12” thick Sebenza (S45VN) steel. They have very similar edge angles and the Sebenza is sharp enough to shave leg hair. But the fact that I can get the Winkler so stupid sharp so effortlessly when the thinner Sebenza is kind of a pain to get sharp and is usually just barely shaving sharp makes all the difference; even more so than the Sebenza’s thinner geometry which in theory should make it a better carver than the thicker stocked winkler.

 

[stonemedusa6264]

To me it's spooky action up close and personal. I mirror finished my super freek when I first got it. So that's a fairly thin m4 blade. It push cut through a 2" pine sapling with ease. I had to brace above where I was cutting but damnnnn. I've never been more amazed with a blade. Also never been in the same situation where I had to do that again. It was in the way for work and got sap all over my blade.

I personally dont care how hard it is to sharpen. My sharpening system is all diamonds and cbn. One of the hardest feeling knifes I've sharpened lately was the kabar wrench knife. I forget what it is but not a super a steel.

 

[Floatingby]

Dunno, for me a user knife has to be sharp enough to do the job, sure, but it has to be comfortable in the hand first, be safe and tough.
I carried a Griptilian for years at work, even though I find it to be very ugly. But it got through complete nights of opening machinery crates without breaking or giving me blisters or even hand discomfort. As for sharpness, I'd just touch it up on a ceramic rod at the end of the shift and it'd be ready for the next day, but I didn't need it to cut paper thin slice of tomatoes, it had to cut webbing, rope, nylon strapping and cardboard.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Yes, and? I'll go with the yes, sharpness (a measure of both edge angle and edge finish as it pertains to the material being cut) is important, and geometry can get you a long way in that. That being said, when you hit materials like a lot of Aussie hardwoods (in the practical sense, not necessarily botanical), where the RC of the wood is measurable against the steel, then it does start to matter. So can the edge take a second cut, and how does it dull, does it fold, or abraid, or tear? these things do start to have an impact. When you hit a material that destroys edges at first contact, this does start to matter, a butcher hitting bone with a steel that bends can burnish an edge back with little effort. A steel that holds geometry but abraids predictably can cut certain materials (paper, cardboard) for a long time, reasonably well. Where an edge that tears can quickly wilt in the face of smooth plastics. So in some ways its a combo of all factors, and the uses will make difference. I mean, no one will dispute that the carbide edge of a milling bit or saw blade is "sharp" even if it's nearly 90 degrees, but sometimes that isn't the only factor. Experience teaches us which factor matters in each use situation, and what works for you, doesn't mean a 1:1 translation to me.

 

[DMG]

Ive noticed this, my 0.18” thick Winkler (80CrV2 steel) carves wood a lot easier than my 0.12” thick Sebenza (S45VN) steel. They have very similar edge angles and the Sebenza is sharp enough to shave leg hair. But the fact that I can get the Winkler so stupid sharp so effortlessly when the thinner Sebenza is kind of a pain to get sharp and is usually just barely shaving sharp makes all the difference; even more so than the Sebenza’s thinner geometry which in theory should make it a better carver than the thicker stocked winkler.

Even if you got them both equally sharp, the Winkler has a lot more to hold onto which gives more leverage and control.

 

[kafolarbear]

Even if you got them both equally sharp, the Winkler has a lot more to hold onto which gives more leverage and control.

Thats besides the point, the winkler physically takes less force to carve wood despite its much thicker blade stock. The difference in carving ability- a pretty dramatic one too- comes down to the fact I can effortlessly get the winkler literally hair whittling sharp while I struggle to get the Sebenza anything more than leg hair shaving sharp.