For the user, is "sharp" the major factor?

I think the pitfall here is that "sharpness" is usually "perceived sharpness".
There's a lot of factors, as mentioned above, in perceived sharpness.

To play along, however, I would usually go for the steel that I could make sharp to my satisfaction.
(provided, of course, it was a steel suitable for knives and of proper heat treatment)
I'm not really concerned about whether or not the edge will be retained for 20 years if it doesn't take a good edge.
 
kafolarbear said:
Thats besides the point, the winkler physically takes less force to carve wood despite its much thicker blade stock. The difference in carving ability- a pretty dramatic one too- comes down to the fact I can effortlessly get the winkler literally hair whittling sharp while I struggle to get the Sebenza anything more than leg hair shaving sharp.
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It’s not beside the point at all. After you make a couple of cuts, the Winkler is no sharper than the Sebenza, maybe duller due to the inferior steel. But you can keep cutting because the Winkler has a great handle.
 
DMG said:
But you can keep cutting because the Winkler has a great handle.
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I don't disagree that the handle is an important part of the knife, being the interface between man and blade, but I'm 100% sure if you put that handle on a hunk of pot metal that the handle doesn't matter beans.
 
DMG said:
It’s not beside the point at all. After you make a couple of cuts, the Winkler is no sharper than the Sebenza, maybe duller due to the inferior steel. But you can keep cutting because the Winkler has a great handle.
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Thats not really the case actually, I can carve wood for an hour or more with my winkler and it would still be sharper and cut better than my sebenza, 80CrV2 is certainly no slouch of a steel.

I get what you’re trying to say though, the winkler is certainly way more comfortable to carve with whereas the Sebenza has a ton of hotspots. But whether or not the handle is comfortable does not change that it takes less force for me to push into a piece of wood with the winkler than the thinner sebenza. And that can only really be the case because my winkler is almost always sharper than my sebenza, which was the point the OP was trying to make that a steel you can get very sharp very easily will out carve a super steel that can be a bit of a pain to sharpen and thus won’t get as sharp without a disproportionate amount of effort.
 
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Piddling said:
Now I assume all of us sharpen our own knives to keep them useful. So it appears to me that all of our talk about all the "best manufacture", "best steel", "best grind", etc is really secondary to the true user. These may be the most important criteria to the owners of "safe queens" or those that just want to brag about certain knives. But sharpness (after we use it out of the box) is dependent upon us - our ability to sharpen/re-sharpen a blade.

Agree or no?
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No.
 
I like Case's CV and CS. I also like whatever Victorinox and Mora are using. Sharpness is everything. "All knives are equal when dull. "-Sal Glesser.
 
I didn’t buy my knives so I could sharpen stuff. I bought them to cut stuff and the longer they cuts before sharpening and the easier they cuts the better. So yeah it makes a difference if you cuts tough materials and stuff.
 
Wait, y'all actually use your knives? And "gasp", sharpen them? Egad, mind blown.

Seriously, there are so many different people on here, users, collectors, hybrid of both. Sharpness+edge geometry+good steel+good heat treat=a great knife, IMO. I'm carrying my Biryukov #12 today, and it is perfect IMO. Full flat grind CPM-S125V blade 3.8" and pretty thin and it never gets dull. Love it.
 
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Hum...I think I started a firestorm and didn't really mean to!! I was just trying to say, sharpness is #1. If you have a dull knife, you might as well have no knife - the geometry, the steel, the heat treatment, the handle, etc., even tho the BEST of the BEST, a dull knife won't cut. If the thing does not cut, it might as well be a rock. Cutting is the #1 purpose of a knife. Cutting is directly related to sharpness!!

Oh I study a knife's geometry, the steel, the heat treatment, locking methodism (if folder), and especially the handle - but these are all far behind sharpness when one goes to "use" a knife. A sharp, cheap steel will still cut. A sharp knife with a poor handle will still cut (altho might be uncomfortable). A sharp, but poorly heat-treated knife, will still cut. ETC ETC EtC If it won't cut (the purpose of a knife), it ain't a knife. So, to me, sharpness has to be #1!
 
Piddling said:
Hum...I think I started a firestorm and didn't really mean to!! I was just trying to say, sharpness is #1. If you have a dull knife, you might as well have no knife - the geometry, the steel, the heat treatment, the handle, etc., even tho the BEST of the BEST, a dull knife won't cut. If the thing does not cut, it might as well be a rock. Cutting is the #1 purpose of a knife. Cutting is directly related to sharpness!!

Oh I study a knife's geometry, the steel, the heat treatment, locking methodism (if folder), and especially the handle - but these are all far behind sharpness when one goes to "use" a knife. A sharp, cheap steel will still cut. A sharp knife with a poor handle will still cut (altho might be uncomfortable). A sharp, but poorly heat-treated knife, will still cut. ETC ETC EtC If it won't cut (the purpose of a knife), it ain't a knife. So, to me, sharpness has to be #1!
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Sharpness goes without saying, it’s a knife. There is no need to think of sharpness when choosing a cutting tool because as you said yourself, thats up to us. Sharpness is an ever changing variable that I just don’t see how you can factor into buying a knife.
And since we needn’t worry about sharpness it’s all those other things that actually matter when buying.
 
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Piddling said:
Poor grade steel, yet sharpened to a "T" was much better a cutting things the highest priced steel just medium sharp.
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Regardless of steel, I prefer my edges sharpened to a "V" personally.. :p

As others have already mentioned, I'll echo that I think geometry is the most important factor for cutting performance (sharpness) at face value. Yes, sure.. steel type can play a role in obtaining/maintaining a high level of sharpness, but.. a Magnacut butter knife is still just a butter knife. Assuming all knives are sharpened equally (with good cutting geometry).. where the different steels ("super" vs. budget) then come into play aren't in your first few cuts, but in your last couple hundred in between sharpenings..
 
Geometry cuts, but only a good heat treat will maintain that geometry for a meaningful length of time. But you still need a steel that is tough and hard enough or you will spend more time sharpening and reprofiling than using your knife.
 
Someone once said "a dull knife is more dangerous than a sharp knife"and I have proof of this. I was cutting a box with a dull knife and the knife slipped and stabbed me in the leg. So the answer on my end is yes sharpness is very important more so than anything else.
 
Out on a remodel job one time, a guy bet me that I couldn’t sharpen up a scrap door hinge leaf sharp enough to cut rope. I won that bet pretty quickly with a side grinder, but then I threw the “knife” in the garbage.

So I’d say not everything sharp is a knife. I’ve had sharp knives I disliked for some other reason, so I moved them on.

Now that I make knives for my own use, I have nobody else to blame for any design flaws. But at least I keep them sharp.

Parker
 
Sharp? Well yes, but its gotts stay sharp enough for the job while I am doing the job.

I have seen a chef wipe a slicer with a sharpening tool after nearly every pass through a standing rib roast. Seems to me that this should be unnecessary.

Same thing for a fishing guide slicing up chum versus filiting a nice big whatever fish. Either knife (maybe a different one) should be sharp enough for the job while doing the job.
 
DeadboxHero said:
You'll come full circle when you start realizing that geometry, heat treatment and steel are a big factor, not just the sharpening.

Most people are only buying knives on how they look or what color the scales are.
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BBB You actually taught me that geometry is much more important when it comes to the whole equation. I mean if you think about it, if you made an atom thick bladestock, it would be sharp regardless if the steel could hold the structure.

To answer the original question, sharpness matters only for the task you are doing. If you are doing field surgery on yourself, you would probably want a sharp knife. If you are cutting cardboard and box tape and packaging, your knife only needs to be sharp enough to do that. I think that is a good way to think about it, keep your knife sharp enough to do the tasks you need to do. Everything past that is just ego.
 
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