Foraging & Anti-Foraging

Mistwalker

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Dec 22, 2007
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Tuesday started off with me catching up with old friends I hadn't seen in a while over breakfast and coffee, as I prepared for a brunch meeting with a client. At the time I was carrying the Handyman in an Diomedes Industries Earl sheath from Fiddleback Outpost. I really like this sheath a lot, this knife has needed a proper sheath for some time. It carries extremely well, and there is just enough of the handle exposed to facilitate grip for extrication while keeping the knife secure in carry.

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With the meeting over, the needs established, and the lesson plan sorted out, it was time to head out. I would have to set up the “classroom” and, capture a few images I wanted for the slideshow, and gather some materials for the lessons with her and her son, that start next week, after weeks of discussions. I am working on a series of skills lessons from a perspective teaching a mother and son who are nearly completely inexperienced with a woodland environment. So the primary focus is on young minds. I noticed a few things in the process, so I grabbed a few images to augment others I have for a blog post I am writing, and a few I thought would make a good “autumn is here” and “autumn awareness thread” here for the forum.

The colors are just beginning to change, and the first leaves have begun to fall.

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The fields are just starting to take on the fiery hues of autumn, with all of the yellows, golds, oranges, and reds. Wandering through them is one of my favorite ways to spend an hour or two. Though I imagine it could be rough on anyone with an allergy to bees or Golden Rod.

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There is a lot of traffic among the flowers. There is a sense of urgency with the bees in all their coming and going.

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I am glad to see our feral honey bee population is doing well. Some of the domestic colonies have had some issues in recent years.

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It was actually watching and photographing the bees liking this particular plant a good deal that inspired this post.

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Photographing them had me physically interacting with the plant. So being in the mid set of teaching skills to the young, I was seeing everything from that perspective. Hearing the sounds brought back thoughts and memories from years ago when I was first teaching my daughter about things to avoid in the woods, and keeping a very close eye on her when these plants were anywhere in our area or along out route. The plamt is Datura Stramonium, or commonly known as Jimson Weed, a toxic plant in the nightshade family. The plant has an interesting history beginning well before modern medicine, that I'm not going to go into. The information is out there in books and on the internet. I've read quite a bit of it over the last ten years. It was useful in specific applications pre-modern medicine, and if William Forstchen hits his mark anywhere near as well as George Orwell hit his, it may someday become important again. I am only bringing it up here in relationship to just how dangerous it can be for small children and why.

It can grow rather tall, but it can also stay small and close to the ground. It has bright flowers, that are somewhat unique and rather pretty. Small children are often drawn to pretty flowers and pick or pull on them

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In the early stages the fruit itself does a pretty good job of discouraging curiosity. The spikey balls can be painful when grasped.

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It is when the fruit dries and goes to seed in the later summer and autumn that the real concern begins. However, it does not end there. These pods hold a lot of small seeds that can have a high concentration of a very dangerous chemical. When the pod and seeds dry, shaking them or the branches they are on, can sound just like a baby's rattle. Something most small children are familiar with and tend to associate with a fun activity. When the pods are open the seeds will sprinkle out when shaken, and many small children have a tendency to put lots of things in their mouths that they shouldn't. Even if the poison intake was low enough that it wasn't fatal, and didn't do permanent organ damage, the thoughts of trying to work with a small child, in the woods, under the effects of a fairly strong hallucinogenic reaction, and all the possible results, are not a pleasant ones.

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And this plant can have all three phases of growth going on simultaneously in late summer and autumn, the flowers to catch the attention of young eyes, and the open seed pods that can be such a danger to them.

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The threat does not end in the autumn, or even in the winter, because much like with other toxic nightshades, the animals do not eat it. So if the weather isn't bad enough to break them down, pods full of seeds can still be found on dead plant stalks the following spring.

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Though once the soft flesh has deteriorated away, and the seeds have all fallen away, the dried skeletal structure of the pods can be pretty cool looking.

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Lots of Moonflower, Ipomoea alba, vines in the fields also.

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Then there are other things around in the early autumn that are edible. Like Passiflora Incarnata....

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Andy wild turkey. Pretty sure I could have gotten at least two of them with one shot :)

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Hickory nuts are falling

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and some of the walnuts

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Some garlic seed heads still around here and there.

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Several things around to snack on right now. Wild grapes and muscadines, hickory nuts and walnuts, and passion fruit that I found just wandering around.

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But I had also brought my own snacks to go with it :) Some aged sharp cheddar and smoked turkey breast, and an onion roll.

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Awesome post. I do enjoy autumn and the golden rod is one of my favorites. Seems to be therapeutic for me to sit and watch a patch of golden rod as it catches the last rays of evening sunshine.
 
Brian,
Your posts are the best. I'm going to be late for work!

Are you taking all these incredible pics with a cell phone?
 
I am working on a series of skills lessons from a perspective teaching a mother and some who are nearly completely inexperienced with a woodland environment. So the primary focus is on young minds.

This is phenomenal, Brian.

[Keep in mind, "foraging" is what I do when I have to go to a succession of stores to procure food-- and yes, that's the word I've used for years. :D]

I am reminded of a wonderful class I had in high school, "Natural History & Ecology," in which our teacher took us out into what scant woods surrounded our school and taught us to really, really look. And listen. And take field notes and make sketches with an eye towards follow-up ID, concluding with research back in the classroom (a clear drawing, the affixing of taxonomical classifications, etc.). Our exams consisted of walks in the woods while being asked to write down the name of a bird flying overhead, a leafless tree, that sound to the left.... It was an amazing experience, one that both encapsulated and inspires the best of learning, an oasis in the midst of all the other pressures driving us academically and socially from within and without. Not that the course wasn't intense(!), but it was so other from what the rest of the day(s) held, in an abiding way.

None of this was nearly on the level of what you have undertaken, but your work evokes strong, best memories, and your clients are fortunate to have found you.

I wish I had, with my own once-young children!

Thank you again for taking the time to share all of this with us.

~ P.
 
That top pic is so good seeing how it rides in the pocket. I would probably put a short lanyard on it. To help facilitate drawing the knife. Love your pics.
 
Man, once again, a stellar thread. Studying about Jimson weed today. Neato.
 
This is phenomenal, Brian.

[Keep in mind, "foraging" is what I do when I have to go to a succession of stores to procure food-- and yes, that's the word I've used for years. :D]

I am reminded of a wonderful class I had in high school, "Natural History & Ecology," in which our teacher took us out into what scant woods surrounded our school and taught us to really, really look. And listen. And take field notes and make sketches with an eye towards follow-up ID, concluding with research back in the classroom (a clear drawing, the affixing of taxonomical classifications, etc.). Our exams consisted of walks in the woods while being asked to write down the name of a bird flying overhead, a leafless tree, that sound to the left.... It was an amazing experience, one that both encapsulated and inspires the best of learning, an oasis in the midst of all the other pressures driving us academically and socially from within and without. Not that the course wasn't intense(!), but it was so other from what the rest of the day(s) held, in an abiding way.

None of this was nearly on the level of what you have undertaken, but your work evokes strong, best memories, and your clients are fortunate to have found you.

I wish I had, with my own once-young children!

Thank you again for taking the time to share all of this with us.

~ P.

Thanks P. I think that's what a lot of us call it lol.

Some years back I thought I wan't to teach skills in a structure class type setting with adults and children, I like to teach, and forty some odd years of wilderness studies have given me a lot of knowledge I can impart. So I tested that theory with a few free classes with volunteer guinea pigs and that approach really just didn't work for me. But the parents of one of the children, and the child were really into the idea of learning more and approached me on the idea of doing private tutoring which worked out much better for all involved. Since then I have been approached by a few others here and there that approach me on social media, and I have learned that I much prefer to discuss the desired material to be learned, and the personality of the client, to discern if I am even the right instructor for them, and then personalize the class structure to the client. This limits how many clients I take on due to the expense of time to set things up, and the costs of the materials that have to be acquired, but it works out much better in the end for all involved.

My youngest daughter's kindergarten teacher and my wife went to school together and have been friends for may years. When Sam got out of the army she decided she wanted to be a teacher because she cannot have children of her own. She didn't do it yet when Alayna was in her class, but she was pushing for it from the beginning, and now does the only outdoor classroom in the Hamilton Co. Schools System and it is going extremely well so far.


That top pic is so good seeing how it rides in the pocket. I would probably put a short lanyard on it. To help facilitate drawing the knife. Love your pics.

Thanks, I really like how this sheath rides, and the lower swell on the handy man is just enough to facilitate the grip of a forefinger as I hold the sheath in place with my thumb. On a model like a Bear Cub a lanyard my actually be necessary, but it works well for the Rustic Wrap EDC-2 and Wingman I have as well. THOUGH with the Wingman's fine trailing point care should be taken when re-sheathing to not damage the sheath. It needs to be re-sheathed a specific way at a specific angle.


Man, once again, a stellar thread. Studying about Jimson weed today. Neato.


Thanks Andy. Although I do feel rather stoopid for initially leaving out the photo and caption that ties the flowers and seed pods together. I edited that in while you were reading the post...

It is a curious plant, and has an interesting back story on some of the uses various cultures have put it to over the years.
 
Somehow I didn't go up enough on my highlighting as I copy pasted, and the original replies to these got lost and had to be re-done...


Fantastic post & pics as usual Brian :thumbup:

Thank you Abe, I'm glad you enjoyed it!


Awesome post. I do enjoy autumn and the golden rod is one of my favorites. Seems to be therapeutic for me to sit and watch a patch of golden rod as it catches the last rays of evening sunshine.

Thanks, me too. I really love watching it sway in the wind when it is back-lit by the setting sun.


Brian,
Your posts are the best. I'm going to be late for work!

Are you taking all these incredible pics with a cell phone?

Thanks Luca, sorry man, didn't mean to make you late!
 
@mistwalker

What a great and interesting project to be working on. Lots of people these days aren't knowledgeable, let alone "comfortable", with the great outdoors. Others like me, are a bit out-of-date for one reason or another.

Interesting close-ups on the young, green Datura Stramonium seed pods. They reminded me of durian, a large SE Asian fruit, I came across while living overseas.

Awful smelling, actually banned on many public transportation lines, but tasty and with a consistency of bananas.

Thanks for the memories.

Sent from my Sero 7 Pro using Tapatalk
 
@mistwalker

What a great and interesting project to be working on. Lots of people these days aren't knowledgeable, let alone "comfortable", with the great outdoors. Others like me, are a bit out-of-date for one reason or another.

Interesting close-ups on the young, green Datura Stramonium seed pods. They reminded me of durian, a large SE Asian fruit, I came across while living overseas.

Awful smelling, actually banned on many public transportation lines, but tasty and with a consistency of bananas.

Thanks for the memories.

Sent from my Sero 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Thank you. It is a project she and I have been discussing the particulars and costs of for several weeks. I am pretty excited about this one, and the depth to which she wants to take the studies. We are starting with basics next week, and it may continue off and on through different levels of advancement over the next few years. I would defnitely like to see and experience this Durian personally. I have been told of it before. I read that one variety is available on the international market, so I am going to try to find a source.
 
Those are some stunning pics Brian! I really enjoyed the flower pics and the dried pods. Thanks for the great post.
 
Great pics Brian. Love the turkeys, they are a curious but very cautious animal. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
 
Stellar photography Brian! And great info. Thanks!


as always, a great thread. thanks for sharing Brian.


Those are some stunning pics Brian! I really enjoyed the flower pics and the dried pods. Thanks for the great post.


Great pics Brian. Love the turkeys, they are a curious but very cautious animal. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

Thank you Nathan, Bob, Todd, and Preston. I am really glad you guys enjoyed the post.

Touching on this aspect of foraging always bring apprehension. Toxic plants are usually more complex than just being poisonous. Many plants that have the capacity to be beneficial and be used medicinally can also be very dangerous to experiment with, and this one is certainly no exception. Every year hundreds of people are hospitalized from misuse of this plant and a lack of knowledge. The concentrations of the various chemicals can vary greatly depending on soil content, sunlight, and water. So people experiment at their own peril. Some end up with permanent kidney damage or in need of transplants, and some die.

So it gets odd at times, to approach this particular one from two different perspectives the way I do, with two very distinctly different groups of people...

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On one hand there is the bushcraft and wilderness skills lessons. In those the dialogue is some variation of "whatever you do, never EVER ingest any part of this plant. It is very dangerous!"

And this is true because as long as there are modern medicine and hospitals available, the risks far outweigh any possible benefits. It's just not worth taking the chances with for any medicinal uses unless possibly if you are a highly trained and highly skilled pharmacologist with the right equipment to minimize the risks involved.

On the other hand, there is another group of people, and the dialogue with them is usually some variation of "this plant can be extremely dangerous. However if the shit really and truly has hit the fan, society has fallen, or everything has simply deteriorated to the point that you are just going to die if something isn't done anyway...but then even with a good outcome, the subject could need a babysitter for a week or two, just to keep from becoming another form of danger to themselves" However, this second group is pretty highly trained, and a lot better at risk assessment than the average person you meet on the streets...
 
Thank you. It is a project she and I have been discussing the particulars and costs of for several weeks. I am pretty excited about this one, and the depth to which she wants to take the studies. We are starting with basics next week, and it may continue off and on through different levels of advancement over the next few years. I would defnitely like to see and experience this Durian personally. I have been told of it before. I read that one variety is available on the international market, so I am going to try to find a source.
I would hazard a guess that the western seaboard from California on up would have some, though I don't know of a specific vendor. If you venture to Vancouver, they would likely have it given the Asian (Chinese in particular) population.

FYI: In Asian/Chinese cuisine, it is considered a "warm" food, meaning it causes the blood vessels to dilate and causing a warming sensation. Like Schnapps! This, as opposed to foods, say watermelon, which cool you down.

ETA: Would love to read some of your source material if you have any references. And best of luck on this project. Such projects should be required IM not-very-Humble O.

Best

Sent from my Sero 7 Pro using Tapatalk
 
Durian is delicious, but my lord does it stink. Definitely an outdoor fruit. When I lived in China My ex girlfriends' sister gifted us one and I spent the next 8 hrs on the balcony. Certainly worth a try in the right circumstances....


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