Forcible entry tools for BOB

B

beezaur

Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
430
It would be hard to imagine a SHTF situation in which there was NO requirement for getting into something that had been . . . well . . . secured to prevent getting into.

Maybe you need to access a building that has its entries blocked by debris. Maybe you need to evacuate by a gated route. Maybe you just need to get some water.

Do any of you carry forcible entry tools? If so what? Hack saws? Hammer and cold chisel? Pry bar?

Scott
 
I carry a 6 inch hacksaw and a 16" gorilla prybar. Thinking along the lines you did, in case I have to get through a debris covered area, or if I need to get into sewer tunnels at some point, it would be helpful. I can think of a million uses for the hacksaw.
my two cents,
pat
 
Granted the crowbars, hacksaws and such are nice. But thought I'd add another entry tool. I've got a few lock picks in my BOB. Maybe if SHTF and I need to get into something, but didn't want "others" to know I gained entry. Plus if it was for supplies, you could relock it and come back later to restock. :D

Just a thought.

--Chris
 
Lock picks are a good idea...I considered them, but I'm not allowed to legally posses them in my AO. My main objective in "bugging out" is to make it out of the city to my parents place in the country, so everything in the bag are means to that end.
also, I carry a pair of Klein hardened cutters, I haven't found anything small yet I can't cut with em...I figure for fences and what not, they might be usefull.
YMMV
thanks for the read,
pat
 
If you are concerned with "relocking" a door, consider a roll of duct tape. Line the frame on all three sides (not the floor obviously). Try it out :) It is suprisingly strong, and "relatively easy" to undue from the inside. This works on both sides, fwiw. And fairly innocuous.

regards,

Shaun.
 
A good tomahawk or framing hammer would be a good choice. A little loud, but you can do ANYTHING with a hammer, right?
 
I've seen this scenario played out quite a bit on misc.Survivalism.

The question I always had was "why bother with the picks?".

If your in a real "SHTF" "TEOTWAWKI" :rolleyes::D situation, why bother with stealth? Anything of value is going to guarded. So, the name of the game should be speed.

Lock picks require a bit of finesse, most locksmiths agree that even a good pick man is going to have to spend a bit of time with a good lock. Anyone want to try picking one under stress?

The way I figure it, handle it like a common thief would. Break a window, pry a lock off, loid a lock... Get in, and get out quick. Check out a Locksmithing board, see how the pro's really deal with this stuff.

Leave the James Bondian stuff at home.

On the pry bar angle, search Hooligan Bar. Those are the odd tools that Firemen carry. They come in different sizes, and look like they'd be be good for all sorts of things besides B & E.
 
"The question I always had was "why bother with the picks?".

For me (and in my SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenario), the reason I bother with picks is that I'm somewhat proficient with them. By saying proficient, I can open most common household locks and padlocks under 10 seconds about 50% of the time. So I'm comfortable in at least trying this first. Secondly, one can make a pick quite easily using spring steel and a file (example, snag a windshield wiper blade use the metal rail off the rubber blade and fashion it with your Leatherman/Vic/Gerber file to make a rake pick). And lastly, the weight and space. If I can get into something in less than 10 seconds with an item that is pocketable and light weight why not try. Beats carrying a crowbar around and making lots of noise, and evidence of entry.

But as always, it depends on the situation. If crap hit the fan, the lowest common denominator is going for the easy smash and grab runs, while those that are prepared are going to have the crowbar, hammer/chisels, pry bars and other entry tools.

Plus it's darn cool to show your buddies that you can do it. :D
 
That's a Haligan tool... And AFAIK they are usually classified as B&E tools and banned the same as lock picks. Stupid, but true. Then again, you can get in trouble for possesion of a crow bar if the cop doesn't like your excuse... But a Haligan can be a bit expensive - over $120 if you get them from Galls, although they charge full price on most things anyway.
 
Thanks, I can never the proper name for them(I went with the most common slang name). As far as the B and E stuff, Yep they can "hang" you for a Multi-tool or screw-driver if they want. I guess context is everything.

I figured since we were batting around ideas, I'd throw out that one.

Nice site, BTW.

:).
 
Originally posted by Saunterer
Secondly, one can make a pick quite easily using spring steel and a file (example, snag a windshield wiper blade use the metal rail off the rubber blade and fashion it with your Leatherman/Vic/Gerber file to make a rake pick).
Click to expand...

A Thinker, how refreshing. The Tools are everywhere, the Skill you have to cultivate beforehand. :)
 
Originally posted by Don Rearic
the Skill you have to cultivate beforehand. :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree, but would you trust that skill against a real lock(i.e. Sargent & Greenleaf, Abus, Medeco) in a time sensitive situation? Granted, some people sometimes dismiss that as "most people don't use that fancy stuff", but that type of thinking can come back to haunt you.
:).
 
"Yes, I agree, but would you trust that skill against a real lock(i.e. Sargent & Greenleaf, Abus, Medeco) in a time sensitive situation?"

True, but if something is protected by a Medeco, it's probably protected by people with lots of lead projectiles. I'm thinking more of the Master locks, Yale and Kwiksets on the concrete storage buildings.

(Disclaimer) I'm not a thief or cat buglar. Used to use picks when I was a LEO on a drug enforcement team some years ago. After the scene was secured, I'd use this talent during the execution of the search warrant.
 
Originally posted by Saunterer


True, but if something is protected by a Medeco, it's probably protected by people with lots of lead projectiles. I'm thinking more of the Master locks, Yale and Kwiksets on the concrete storage buildings.
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm figuring tat in a real SHTF scenario(i.e. Government, FEMA, either can't or won't help you) people are going to be guarding those out buildings heavily(dogs, etc...).

If you've got to deal with a sentry, dog, etc.... your stealth is already gone.

:).
 
Originally posted by bob bowie
Yes, I agree, but would you trust that skill against a real lock (i.e. Sargent & Greenleaf, Abus, Medeco) in a time sensitive situation? Granted, some people sometimes dismiss that as "most people don't use that fancy stuff", but that type of thinking can come back to haunt you.
Click to expand...

Well, first of all, we have to agree to agree on terminology. From the very start you skew the debate in your favor by condemning the vast majority of locks as not being "real locks."

A Yale, Schlage, Corbin, Russwin and quite a few others, I assure you, are "real locks" that take real skills to manipulate open. And they are far more common than those you cite.

Since I'm not particularly concerned with pulling off an NDE on an S&G, because they are primarily used on GSA - approved security containers, I don't concern myself with them. Most of the S&G are actually combination locks and high security ones at that, so the point is moot.

There are GSA - approved, "MilSpec" padlocks that are either combination (dial, same as S&G safe dial on SCIF doors, etc.) and Medeco as well. They are also incredibly rare to see in any other application than Mil. or D.o.D.

Medeco are quite common, but you might be amazed at who tends to use them and those who tend not to use them. In almost a decade with an alarm company, I saw a carpet company use them on every door and never saw them on a single Jewelry store, imagine that. In some sort of situation like we tend to discuss in here, for the most part, you're not talking about obtaining anything other than shelter. So, I don't think you need to be popping the local merchants. :)

As far as Abus are concerned, if you are talking about the Discus padlock, you can pick them, it's not that big of a deal. You have to learn how to pick upside down because of the way the shackle is oriented.

Being cold and rained on and having to finish a job because you have more lined up is "time sensitive" enough for me. :)

Originally posted by Saunterer
I'm thinking more of the Master locks, Yale and Kwiksets on the concrete storage buildings.
Click to expand...

Yale can be a toughy, the Y1 keyway is quite convoluted. It can also have mushroom pins if it is an older one too. KW are a snap and Master can be a stickler because of the floating core, but none are out of the realm of possibilities.

(Disclaimer) I'm not a thief or cat buglar. Used to use picks when I was a LEO on a drug enforcement team some years ago. After the scene was secured, I'd use this talent during the execution of the search warrant.
Click to expand...

I used them when I worked for an alarm company during certain situations, but with employer/client approval. Sometimes a client/customer would lose a key that they demanded they have proprietary control over, etc. But never without legal approval.

Drop me an E-mail.
 
Don Rearic slowly figered his M.I.T guide, and posted the following:D:


From the very start you skew the debate in your favor by condemning the vast majority of locks as not being "real locks."

Nothing wrong with skewing, if it give someone something to think about. Simply wanted to point out that you'll never know what you might face.


A Yale, Schlage, Corbin, Russwin and quite a few others, I assure you, are "real locks" that take real skills to manipulate open. And they are far more common than those you cite.

I'll agree with that, but see my point made above.

Since I'm not particularly concerned with pulling off an NDE on an S&G, because they are primarily used on GSA - approved security containers, I don't concern myself with them. Most of the S&G are actually combination locks and high security ones at that, so the point is moot.

This I am tempted to disagree with. Ton's of S&G locks (both Combo and Keyed Medeco cylinder) are making their way to the surplus market. So, I think in the comming years, you'll see more of them.

Medeco are quite common, but you might be amazed at who tends to use them and those who tend not to use them. In almost a decade with an alarm company, I saw a carpet company use them on every door and never saw them on a single Jewelry store, imagine that.

I'll give you that. Some folks won't invest in quality. Had a friend, his idea of security was to add another $5.00 lock to the door, figure a bunch of cheap stuff would scare 'um off:(.

In some sort of situation like we tend to discuss in here, for the most part, you're not talking about obtaining anything other than shelter. So, I don't think you need to be popping the local merchants. :)

Alright, then we need to define what a "SHTF" situation is. I think that term is way over used.

To me, you need to concern yourself with basic stuff like first-aid, natural disaster survival, basic woodcraft, etc...

I see people using terms like "SHTF", etc..., and dicussing all sorts of odd pieces of equipment, I figure I'm dealing with something other than simple survival. So I talior the post to fit that:).....

Personally, if I need shelter in a urban envoirment, I handle it like a street person(i.e. find a bus station, etc...).
Thanks guys, I'm enjoying the discussion:).

[/B][/QUOTE]
 
I think "SHTF" should include whatever you build your BOB for.

In my case, I am considering things along the natural disaster line of reasoning: earthquakes, firest fires, things like that.

I don't altogether buy the argument that things will be guarded by armed guards with guns. Maybe WE would do that, but, let's face it, we are the minority. Most people will bug out for Red Cross hospitality and cry on their gov't issue cots. I think things would be largely evacuated.

Suppose we stayed home to guard our things and generally just be defiant. We, as a group, are probably all pretty good at that :)

Then suppose someone is in desparate need of something medical that is known to be kept in some locked building, maybe a pharmacy. Or maybe some old person needs to be evacuated from their home, but all the doors are blocked by a debris flow and emergency services are unavailable. Or maybe you are fleeing a forest fire and you come to a gate, the type that is built from huge I-beams and structural tubing.

These are the kinds of things I am imagining.

Scott
 
is there a quality difference between lock pick sets? If so which names are at the top of your lists?
 
Originally posted by beezaur

In my case, I am considering things along the natural disaster line of reasoning: earthquakes, firest fires, things like that.

Same thing here.

I don't altogether buy the argument that things will be guarded by armed guards with guns. Maybe WE would do that, but, let's face it, we are the minority.

See, when I think of BOB situations, I think back to Hurricane Andrew, LA Riots, etc... The people who stayed behind were armed, and didn't take kindly to people screwing with their stuff, rightly so:).

So, I wouldn't want to get caught nosing around their stuff with a set of picks, etc... I would rather make my self known, and see if could buy, trade, etc... for something of theirs that I needed.

Many people are still pretty nice in a bad situation if you talk to them:).

Most people will bug out for Red Cross hospitality and cry on their gov't issue cots. I think things would be largely evacuated.

As much as I've got a "go down with the ship" tinge in me, this is a good idea sometimes. The Government can handle certain things better than even the best prepared person can.


Then suppose someone is in desparate need of something medical that is known to be kept in some locked building, maybe a pharmacy. Or maybe some old person needs to be evacuated from their home, but all the doors are blocked by a debris flow and emergency services are unavailable.

Still think this is best handled with brute force. You can pick your way in, but why bother.


Or maybe you are fleeing a forest fire and you come to a gate, the type that is built from huge I-beams and
structural tubing.

Got me there:).


[/B]
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top