Forge burner questions

Atlas Knife Company

Atlas Knife Company

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Feb 16, 2010
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Been reading a lot about forge burners but without having one to look at, I may be missing some of the intent behind the parts.

Most designs that I find have a MIG welder tip as the gas restrictor. This means a .030" or .045" hole restricting the flow of the gas coming into the forge. Is this accurate?

My tabletop gas grill has a removable gas intake. It seems to be a smaller version of the ones I see being built. Mind you, the valve and .030" hole are the same, just the venturi tube is factory made/tuned by Weber. Can I just make an extension and use the Weber gas valve? Would I just make a tube holder with a flare to hold this burner using the three set screws like most plans show?

Now, for the obvious part. I'm sure there's a reason more people don't use these burners. What is that reason?

SANY0016.JPG
 
It's not designed to put out nearly the BTU's, or concentrated flame, that you need for even a small gas forge.

In answer to your first question, yes the MIG tip is there to restrict and channel the flow of gas into the burner. People use the MIG tips because they have a smooth, accurate bore that when aimed well improves flame characteristics. It's not strictly necessary but does make a real difference.
 
Salem has it right... the mig tip is just a shortcut to drilling and aligning your own hole. Many folks just drill a hole through black pipe. (check out the Ron Reil type). The big difference is in the regulated gas flow. A hole alone doesn't cut it.... a valve alone doesn't cut it. You need a regulator to dial in the pressure, the proper intake for air and an expansion chamber for efficient burning. I am not up on the LP lingo... there are much smarter guys to fill in all my gaps. In short, that Webber part would be like comparing a squirt gun to a power washer.

All that being said, Tai sure does make use of that weed burner forge of his. I tried it early on and couldn't get within 4 ft of my forge opening. He spaces the burner a few inches away from the cavity port to dissipate some of the pressure.

Rick
 
Thanks. That's about what I figured. If I'm going to have to buy a regulator, should I just buy the whole burner? Who sells them?
 
If you are not sure about how it works and how to build one, purchasing one to start with is smart money.

Darren Ellis sells the regulators, hoses, quick connect fittings ( really useful), and burners. One stop shopping and one shipping charge. He sells all the forge building supplies you will need ,too.
 
I've almost got Larry's site memorized at this point. Ellis' site seems to be having issues lately. How many BTU should be the goal of each burner? Who sells the Ward reducing Ts, Menards, HD, Lowes, mom and pop HW stores?
 
The general rule is one 3/4" burner per 350ci of forge interior volume. The 3/4" burner's produce generally 40k BTU's up to 120k BTU's....

If you go to a local HVAC shop and ask, I'm sure they'd give you an empty freon tank which is a good size for a single burner. Here's a good link for a forge build I looked at.

http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/forge.tutorial.htm

Wayne Coe has good info on his site http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/ and is great to talk to and get advice.

I'm a plumber, I ordered 2 ea 1-1/4" parallel fittings(wye) for 6 bucks from my wholesaler and made a Z-burner type burner like Larry Zoeller's.

I'd Call Ellis. Their flares are easier to buy than trying to make your own, and their website's been goofy for sometime. If you click the links they'll take you through their site, but it takes some patience.

A big difference between BBQ burners and forge burners is their pressure regulator BBQ's are like 5PSI???. Other things as well, but that's one of the big ones. The forge burners usually go up to 30PSI.... Stacy(Bladsmith) wrote a step by step tuning guide for a venturi burner awhile back that was very helpful.
 
This thread needs more pictures...

Some of my forge setups...
 

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fluidsteel said:
A big difference between BBQ burners and forge burners is their pressure regulator BBQ's are like 5PSI???. Other things as well, but that's one of the big ones. The forge burners usually go up to 30PSI....
Click to expand...

My rig runs at 7-9 PSI for forging and 1.5 PSI for heat treat with muffle rig.
 
Rick,Your setup is awesome.And thanks for the link.That little coffee can forge looks perfect for me.Ive been grinding folder blades and i think ive about worn out my welcome having my bud do the heat treat.I tried a propane torch ,held the blade in vise grips for 25 minutes and couldnt get a color change at all.I was going to next try drilling a fire brick and using the little propane torch.I dont know if it will be enough or not.Its Alabama Damascus im working with.Thin stuff,about .090.
 
I may get flamed for this (no pun intended), but if you have the tools and the drive to make knives you can make a burner. Follow the links and such that you have found thus far, experiment a bit, and then start making hot metal...

Buying a burner is fine if you don't have the tools, drive, or knowledge, but I'm guessing that you have all of the above from what I have seen you post...

Just my thoughts...

Charlie
 
Yes it is easy to make a plumbing parts burner but not a high end ventui burner. I just purchased the absolute best Venturi burner made and by NO means could I have made it. What I bought requires some high end machining equipment, lots of skill and knowledge. Well worth my $$.
 
Charlie,If you're talking to me, dont worry,Im a notorious tightwad.I wont buy anything i can build.Unless i drag it out of a pawn shop,buy it off craiglist, or some overstock sale.Yes,Ill be hitting the stickies and i think the $50.00 knife shop book has a single firebrick forge recipe.Ill probably continue to send out my stainless steel.I have quite a bit of 154CM to play with.
 
Alright, Rick, I'll post pics of what I have so far. There are my three forges, only one of which is actually functional. First is my bigger forge that I need a burner for. Second is my 1BF, last is my future 2BF.

big forge.jpg 1bf.jpg 2bf.jpg
 
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About the burner placement for my 2BF, should it be in the middle, just a little front or back? Straight in the side? angled a little front or back? angled up or down?
 
zaph1 said:
About the burner placement for my 2BF, should it be in the middle, just a little front or back? Straight in the side? angled a little front or back? angled up or down?
Click to expand...
I tried placing it towards the back in mine, but with the size of chamber hole I drilled(2-1/8") it didn't heat up the chamber evenly. I reamed my burner hole slightly so the flame went in on a tangent angled up and that helped.
I'm assuming this will be for a little propane tank or Mapp gas type burner until you get your other one done?
 
Myself, with the local supply we have here in Ontario, it was a lot of trouble and not cost savings to make one. The best burners at the time used silver soldered, machined fittings, and a victor type jet not a MIG. At the end of the day it was a lot cheaper to buy Hybrid burner which has a great reputation. I did make my own, just because, but it was a fun project.

As time went by I added silver soldering, milling, lathe, and oxy fuel torch. If I was starting from scratch I would probably still go Hybrid, but it would be pretty easy to make my own, and I would cough up for a Smith regulator since I also use that in my welding torch.
 
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