Forge questions

cbr900son

cbr900son

Joined
Mar 3, 2011
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Now I dont forge tho in the future id love to give it a try but I was reading some forge builds and admiring all the home made designs and some questions popped in my head.

1) The guy who forge swords and what not. How big of a forge do they use? id imagine it would have to be really long etc... to heat treat and everything.
2) How much propane do forges go thru? is it a big cost? do the 3 burner etc eat up way more then the smaller forges?
 
1. Typically a smaller pass-through type gas forge will be used to forge a sword, and another one a bit longer than the blade will be used to heat for the quench. You can only really mange up to 6" heats at a time, often less when hammering.

2. It all depends on how big the forge is, how well it's insulated, and how efficient the burner is. The first gasser I built was horribly inefficient, my latest pretty much just sips propane for most work. It's all about not using too much forge for the job, I guess.

A 20 gallon tank lasts me 3-5 months when not doing a lot of welding.
 
Thanks for the info. I was very curious. Might look into taking the money I have put aside for a heat treating oven and look into some forge options.
 
Oddly enough, my two burner forge used less gas than the single burner. It hummed at about 4-6psi where the single burner needed to run at 7-10psi. I found the two burner to really suck for forging as it heated up more than I could hammer. It was better for heat treating, though. I now heat treat in a kiln and forge with an improved single burner. The Doulbe sits under a bench in my shop as backup, should my kiln breakdown.

Rick
 
Well the problem is for me Im finding myself really drawn to wanting to make swords in the future. They really fascinate me. So Im thinking of the future as far as size for forging and HT'ing and when I read about others forge builds kinda makes me think what I would do.
 
I HT swords in a 16" long forge. You "pump" the sword back and forth through the forge, checking the temperature as it gets close. With some practice, you can hold the sword at the target temp for several minutes and quench in a tall tank.

I have also set up two forges back to back and done a long sword in the extended chamber length that way. I still pumped it in an out to assure even heating.

Stacking some fire bricks at the front and back ports of a forge also helps when stroking a sword or longer knife in and out.

In all cases, the forge should be run for at least 15 minutes to heat up well before a HT is done. It should be running at the heat level needed for the HT also. Running the forge at full blast/welding heat is foolish when all you want is to heat the blade to 1450F/790C.
 
For the open forge folks(gas or coal)... The muffle pipe set up really makes a huge difference in temperature stability. I was able to hold 1500F +/- 15degs at 1.5psi. Variations of it allow you to control atmosphere and scaling issues.

Rick
 
If swords are on your mind, then read up on salt pots for a long term ht plan. Not for a beginner but it takes awhile to properly absorb all the info needed to make their use safe. So start reading now.
Also look at Don Fogg's site. :-)
In the stickies at the top are links for PID controlled forges. Stacy has linked all the part numbers need for a thermocouple controlled forge. I used them to buy my PID controller.
 
For forging a sword, you only ever want to heat the part that you're immediately working on, this minimizes the chances to mess something up elsewhere with over heating or whatnot. It also prevents you from getting too much decarb or losing too much material to fire scale. If you look at , say, a japanese trough forge, the actual point of heat is very small and in the center, and they only 'open it up' to heat along the length of the forge when heat treating.
 
Hmm maybe I should have one for forging and one for heat treating. I dunno. I really enjoy making knives and swords and such and pushing myself. It seems like i spend all my days off work in my shop having a blast and I want to be setup and not limited by machines and tools for projects Id like to take on.
 
If money isnt a issue, get a forge for well forging and one of the evenheat/paragon etc HT ovens for heattreating.
 
Or, get a forge for forging ( thus the name) and send out the swords and knives for HT. You will have to HT well over a hundred blades to even approach the cost of a HT oven capable of doing a sword.
 
Here is my solution. It is built along the lines of what everyone else is telling you. It was built so it could be used for a larger knife/sword if I felt that it what I wanted to do. It has an 18" long main chamber and two 2" doors,lined with 2" of k-wool (that will lift, allowing access to the main chamber or the back door lifting allows for a longer knife/sword to be forged in the same area)! It has a total of 22" in length. The front door has a pass thru with a gate that can be lowered to help retain heat if necessary. The burners are two but are set up so either can be used individually. They are set at an angle to help lessen any hot spots and create and vortex inside of the forge.

click on any pic for a close up view:
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u20/craft5759/Forge/

The tanks are manifolded together so that I can get usage from both to reduce freeze-up and they can be stored in a storage shed instead of in my garage for two reasons, space and I don't have to worry about a leak while not in use.

The original plumbing was taken from another site and it had an idler unit on it as you see in the last pic. Once I set it up with the real burners and plumbed them I realized it was not needed as I can control either burner with out it!
 
Nice forge Dixieblade! I like to forge with a single burner to localize heat and found the two burner overkill for blade forging outside of pattern welding(which I don't do.) At first I would simply shut down one of the burners but found out that unless it is fully removed, it's a quick way to ruin a good burner.
 
bladsmth said:
Or, get a forge for forging ( thus the name) and send out the swords and knives for HT. You will have to HT well over a hundred blades to even approach the cost of a HT oven capable of doing a sword.
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I undertsand what you are saying and respect your opinion HIGHLY but I love everything about knife making and love doing it myself. Its a hobby for me and I love just focusing on all the phases of making a knife and would love to be able to do it all and enjoy it all. I know it would be cheaper and easier for me to ship off for HT but it would be less fun and enjoyment for me and thats my #1 prioty. Now if I could have the same level of enjoyment and save some $ well im all for that but I really want to do as much as I can. Im currently doing some research on forges and mills. Lots of info out there to sort thru and read!
 
cbr900son said:
I undertsand what you are saying and respect your opinion HIGHLY but I love everything about knife making and love doing it myself. Its a hobby for me and I love just focusing on all the phases of making a knife and would love to be able to do it all and enjoy it all. I know it would be cheaper and easier for me to ship off for HT but it would be less fun and enjoyment for me and thats my #1 prioty. Now if I could have the same level of enjoyment and save some $ well im all for that but I really want to do as much as I can. Im currently doing some research on forges and mills. Lots of info out there to sort thru and read!
Click to expand...

Good for you! That's the spirit! :)

As teachers, I don't think we should assume that every student is just looking for the cheapest and/or easiest way to do something. I'm sure you'll learn a lot and come out ahead in the long run.

I encourage you to put your personal goals first.
 
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