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Forge start up
- Thread starter BennettS.
- Start date
Are you going to use solid fuel (coal, coke, wood, charcoal) or gas (LP or natural)? Inside or outside? How much space do you have? How much $$$$ do you have? First 2 considerations I looked at were ventilation and fire resistance. Additionally you may need to look at use codes.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Aug 20, 2004
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- 38,525
I think he means he wants to set up a smithy (often called a forge).
Start with a work area. If indoors, it can be a garage or outbuilding. If outdoors, it needs a roof of some sorts. However, a patio or driveway can work in the beginning.
Equipment is often put on rolling tables and carts so it can be moved to where you want it. This allows working on the patio or drive and then rolling it back at night.
As you learn to make a knife, the order of getting tools is:
Hand tools - Start simple - Files, get good quality Nicholson or other brand name files. A 10" flat bastard and 10" second cut will get you started. An 8" half round bastard is a good third file. Eventually, you want a set of needle files and several sizes of chain saw files. Buy a few clamps and a medium size vise at HF or one of the similar stores. Build or buy a rock solid work table ( 2X6 and 2X4 construction). You also want a surface plate - it is a block of granite that has had the surface lapped absolutely flat. They are used to flat sand the blades on and to check for warpage. They are very low cost at places like Woodcraft and industrial suppliers. 12X9" is the normal size. Woodcraft has them on sale at half price all the time for $20. A box full of sandpaper from 60 grit to 1000 grit ( wet-or-Dry or RhinoWet). Get a high tension hacksaw frame and Lenox Bi-metal blades.
Grinder - A HF small grinder will work in the beginning, but before long, you will want a 2X72 with at least 1HP motor. Save up and buy one made for knifemaking as soon as it is practical. 90% of knife work is done on the grinder by most makers. You will want a flat platen and an 8" or 10" contact wheel to start. Other attachments and wheel sizes will follow.
Drill Press - A relatively simple drill press with multi-speed is all most folks need. You need to drill holes in the tangs and in the handle material. As time goes by, you will replace it with a bigger model.
HT oven - A kiln/oven is needed to do proper HT. All sorts of other methods exist using everything from a camp fire to a forge, but none of them can match the evenness and accuracy of using a knife HT oven for doing knife HT. Until you get a HT oven, HT is best farmed out to a professional HTer.
Forge -A forge is nice to have, and fun to use. But the vast majority of knifemakers do not forge their knives. Stock removal makes a knife just as good ( or better) than forging. Forging allows use of different size metal to make a desired shape in a knife. Most makers with a forge still do most of their work on a grinder. The forge is good for doing HT if you have gained the experience, and like the use of fire to do carbon steel HT. There are many tutorials/plans to build a simple forge available.
Buffer - Buffers are in many shops, and are very useful. They look simple and easy to use, but are seriously dangerous machines. Lear how to use one properly and know how they can hurt you ... or they will quickly show you how badly they can hurt you.
Disc Grinder - A 9" disc grinder is really useful for many flattening tasks. 1° taper is the norm.
Mill - A mill is useful as a super accurate drill press as well as shaping metal and slotting guards. Most mini-mills are not of much use or quality. The beefier the better when it comes to mills.
Surface grinder - You read a lot about surface grinders, but they are really just time savers. They remove excess metal from forged knives and billets and reduce thickness on heavy bars. IN a shop that makes a lot of knives, they are nice. In a small hobby shop, they are expensive luxuries that take up a lot of floor space. Everything a surface grinder does can be done by hand ... just slower.
Other tools that are nice to have :
Angle grinder - Use right and with a guard they are safe and efficiently remove forging scale and do some basic heavy shaping. Used wrong they can hurt you bad. Whatever you are grinding oin needs to be firmly clamped or bolted down.
Optivisor - A simple optivisor will allow close up examination of the blade surface and sanding quality. It will show you how bad your sanding really is.
Specialty clamps and jigs - Don't rely on jigs and such to do your work for you. Thy are there to help you do your work more efficiently and accurately. A skilled surgeon can do an appendectomy with a pocket knife, but a scalper with a #22 blade makes it more efficient. A first year med student can't do it with all the equipment in a full surgery. It is the experience and knowledge that makes a tool or jig useful, not the tool. Too many new makers start with jigs for every task and never learn how to do that task well.
Specialty tools - A look through any knife catalog will show up lots of neat knifemaker tools. Get them as you need them and can afford them, but decide if you really need one first. Most guys have a box full of stuff they never or seldom use that cost a lot of money.Of the essential specialty tools, three stand out - A filing guide with hardener or carbide guides, an edge scribe, and a bubble jig from Fred Rowe. These items can greatly improve the quality and accuracy of any makers knives.
Measuring tools - A good micrometer and steel measuring sticks in several sizes are needed. You use them to scribe lines, measure blades, etc. Get ones with inch and mm markings. If you are not a metric person, learn it. It will save many mistakes in measuring and calculating.
Start with a work area. If indoors, it can be a garage or outbuilding. If outdoors, it needs a roof of some sorts. However, a patio or driveway can work in the beginning.
Equipment is often put on rolling tables and carts so it can be moved to where you want it. This allows working on the patio or drive and then rolling it back at night.
As you learn to make a knife, the order of getting tools is:
Hand tools - Start simple - Files, get good quality Nicholson or other brand name files. A 10" flat bastard and 10" second cut will get you started. An 8" half round bastard is a good third file. Eventually, you want a set of needle files and several sizes of chain saw files. Buy a few clamps and a medium size vise at HF or one of the similar stores. Build or buy a rock solid work table ( 2X6 and 2X4 construction). You also want a surface plate - it is a block of granite that has had the surface lapped absolutely flat. They are used to flat sand the blades on and to check for warpage. They are very low cost at places like Woodcraft and industrial suppliers. 12X9" is the normal size. Woodcraft has them on sale at half price all the time for $20. A box full of sandpaper from 60 grit to 1000 grit ( wet-or-Dry or RhinoWet). Get a high tension hacksaw frame and Lenox Bi-metal blades.
Grinder - A HF small grinder will work in the beginning, but before long, you will want a 2X72 with at least 1HP motor. Save up and buy one made for knifemaking as soon as it is practical. 90% of knife work is done on the grinder by most makers. You will want a flat platen and an 8" or 10" contact wheel to start. Other attachments and wheel sizes will follow.
Drill Press - A relatively simple drill press with multi-speed is all most folks need. You need to drill holes in the tangs and in the handle material. As time goes by, you will replace it with a bigger model.
HT oven - A kiln/oven is needed to do proper HT. All sorts of other methods exist using everything from a camp fire to a forge, but none of them can match the evenness and accuracy of using a knife HT oven for doing knife HT. Until you get a HT oven, HT is best farmed out to a professional HTer.
Forge -A forge is nice to have, and fun to use. But the vast majority of knifemakers do not forge their knives. Stock removal makes a knife just as good ( or better) than forging. Forging allows use of different size metal to make a desired shape in a knife. Most makers with a forge still do most of their work on a grinder. The forge is good for doing HT if you have gained the experience, and like the use of fire to do carbon steel HT. There are many tutorials/plans to build a simple forge available.
Buffer - Buffers are in many shops, and are very useful. They look simple and easy to use, but are seriously dangerous machines. Lear how to use one properly and know how they can hurt you ... or they will quickly show you how badly they can hurt you.
Disc Grinder - A 9" disc grinder is really useful for many flattening tasks. 1° taper is the norm.
Mill - A mill is useful as a super accurate drill press as well as shaping metal and slotting guards. Most mini-mills are not of much use or quality. The beefier the better when it comes to mills.
Surface grinder - You read a lot about surface grinders, but they are really just time savers. They remove excess metal from forged knives and billets and reduce thickness on heavy bars. IN a shop that makes a lot of knives, they are nice. In a small hobby shop, they are expensive luxuries that take up a lot of floor space. Everything a surface grinder does can be done by hand ... just slower.
Other tools that are nice to have :
Angle grinder - Use right and with a guard they are safe and efficiently remove forging scale and do some basic heavy shaping. Used wrong they can hurt you bad. Whatever you are grinding oin needs to be firmly clamped or bolted down.
Optivisor - A simple optivisor will allow close up examination of the blade surface and sanding quality. It will show you how bad your sanding really is.
Specialty clamps and jigs - Don't rely on jigs and such to do your work for you. Thy are there to help you do your work more efficiently and accurately. A skilled surgeon can do an appendectomy with a pocket knife, but a scalper with a #22 blade makes it more efficient. A first year med student can't do it with all the equipment in a full surgery. It is the experience and knowledge that makes a tool or jig useful, not the tool. Too many new makers start with jigs for every task and never learn how to do that task well.
Specialty tools - A look through any knife catalog will show up lots of neat knifemaker tools. Get them as you need them and can afford them, but decide if you really need one first. Most guys have a box full of stuff they never or seldom use that cost a lot of money.Of the essential specialty tools, three stand out - A filing guide with hardener or carbide guides, an edge scribe, and a bubble jig from Fred Rowe. These items can greatly improve the quality and accuracy of any makers knives.
Measuring tools - A good micrometer and steel measuring sticks in several sizes are needed. You use them to scribe lines, measure blades, etc. Get ones with inch and mm markings. If you are not a metric person, learn it. It will save many mistakes in measuring and calculating.
Thanks for the thorough instruction. I actually have a bunch of that equipment since I had put together a workshop in my garage. I don't have a bandsaw a drill press, or other specialty equipment. Based on your thorough response, I will hold off on the forge and continue working in my shop and improve my skills. Recently I have just been completely reprofiling quality heat treated machetes to fit my need and liking. I have essentially been making new things out of old. I think it would be wisest to make my first knives from scratch at my shop, rather than trying to jump into forging with no prior knowledge. Thanks for your help, especially you stacy