Forge Use Help

David Wesner

David Wesner

Joined
Jan 5, 2005
Messages
2,531
I'm getting ready to try my hand at casting some bronze & copper.

I've heard guys say that " if you ever want to weld using your forge don't use it melt brass etc. "

What is the science behind this ?

Should I use a casting specific furnace or heat source for my melting ?

What other materials can cause future problems that you recommend NOT to put in a forge used to weld steel in :confused:

Is it a permanent screw-up that would require a new forge lining once done ? And no, I haven't already done it ;)

Thank you for any help you guys can give me and Happy New Year to all. :)
 
Well on charcoal forge I used to use, I had copper on some of the firebricks from smelting and it still could weld. I also cast brass using that forge, still no more problems with welding than normal.

If you spill copper ect. in your forge you do want to remove it and reline that area with new satanite. Copper, brass, and (I think) bronze fumes are bad for you. I don't remember if they are poisons or toxins but either way its bad for you.

Happy new year.
 
During a class that I was taking on forging and forge welding, my instructor decided to make some brass/nickel mokume. Once he was done heating it and compressing it, I put a stack of 1084/15N20 into the forge to bring up to welding temp. I had made 4 successful bars of damascus in the past two days, but this one didn't weld. I took it apart after the failure and found it full of brass and nickel between the layers, which prevented welding. It sucked the stuff all the way between each layer and fully coated all surfaces on the inside of the billet, but did not coat any of the surface that was exposed to the forge. Only between layers was affected.

I can assure you that it will screw up your forge, so if you do any non-ferrous work with your forge, you should completely clean it out before doing any damascus work!
 
I am not completely sure on this but I think Delbert Ealy makes mokume in the same forge he makes damascus in. Casting may cause a problem, I am not sure. I have forged brass in the same forge I forge weld in. It would seem that if it spills you may be screwed.
 
;)IG, how the heck are ya ? :D Wives tale eh ? I'm not sure what to think. More research is definitely in order for me , that's a "for sure" :thumbup:

ekibyougami, I'm sorry, I should have been more specific ( I know better :o ). I'm hoping to use my 2 burner enclosed type gas forge (doors front&back). I'm not sure if results would/could be different in regards to retained gases, elements or whatever it is that I've heard can give you grief.

Thanks Scott :thumbup: That's the same kind of horror story I've heard too.
I'm still curious as to the reason this happens. Where did " the stuff " that was sucked into the layers come from ? What is "the stuff" ? Is it deposited on the walls and/or bottom of the forge. How long does it keep affecting the atmosphere ?

Thanks guys. I really appreciate the help :thumbup:

You slipped that reply in while I was pecking away Bill ;) Now I'm really confused :confused:
 
Hi Dave, are you familiar with "lost wax" casting? it would be the way to go, because you can do the burnout of the wax in the investment mold in your forge, and when it is burned out, and temp of the flask, pipe or tin can will work, you can make an hand sling with a coffee can, and as long as the mold is equaled in temp. to barely glowing red, and you have heated and fluxed your brass or sterling silver, you pour it into the cupped out area in mold and pick up the cord of the sling on your new hand caster and swing it around about 3 revolutions- wala a casted part. shrinkage from the wax and mold is about 3% Oh, and the brass should be melted to "rolling and just starting to pop a little blue flame from the surface before you pour.

Hope this helps or gives you an idea of what to do. :)
 
Well I used a piece of 1-1/4" steel pipe with a closed end to smelt, it will wear away over time but you could make it so the pipe is angled where the gases vent outside of the forge. Of course this would work better with a vertical forge and some sort of graphite pipe.
 
I have only heard of the problem anecdotally.
From a chemists point of view, I could see how the slag and spatter from a smelt of a cupric metal alloy could create an atmosphere in the forge that will be full of really hot copper ions. These would love nothing better than to grab hold of a hot iron atom and its associated alloy elements (sort of like letting IG loose at a nude volleyball competition). The resulting anodizing of the steel could make a coating that might prevent a weld. Now ,as to if this is really going to happen, and if it is permanent, I have my doubts.
I defer to those who have had the problem and their experience.
Stacy
 
Original said:
Hi Dave, are you familiar with "lost wax" casting? it would be the way to go, because you can do the burnout of the wax in the investment mold in your forge, and when it is burned out, and temp of the flask, pipe or tin can will work, you can make an hand sling with a coffee can, and as long as the mold is equaled in temp. to barely glowing red, and you have heated and fluxed your brass or sterling silver, you pour it into the cupped out area in mold and pick up the cord of the sling on your new hand caster and swing it around about 3 revolutions- wala a casted part. shrinkage from the wax and mold is about 3% Oh, and the brass should be melted to "rolling and just starting to pop a little blue flame from the surface before you pour.

Hope this helps or gives you an idea of what to do. :)
Click to expand...

Interesting concept :thumbup: Lost wax casting is a possibility I have considered and will probably explore. Thanks for the details.

Thank you Stacy. That's the kind of answer I was hoping for. Not because I would fully comprehend the explanation so much as if there was a scientific explanation for what was happening, the welding issue would/could be a bit more believable. Does that make any sense :) :confused: Hey, I'm still learning ;)

Thanks ekib and Keith too. Sometimes the most simple and obvious solutions may be the most relevant and effective :)

Thanks again guys. I appreciate the help as I can use all I can get :D
 
I could understand a problem with brass as the vapor of the zinc[toxic !!] might contaminate things .This can form at a fairly low temperature. Other than that I don't know.
 
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