Forge welding fluxes

B

bennett

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Sep 22, 2005
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I recently took some time off to get my shop cleaned and reorganized, make some new tooling, build shelves, etc... I'm going to start forging again in a couple of weeks, and need to get some more flux. In the past I've used anhydrous borax, and it's worked fine. I've also used 20 Mule Team in a pinch - seems to work, but not nearly as well as anhydrous, so I wouldn't consider using it on a regular basis. I've been doing some research, and was considering trying out some EZ Weld or Cherry Heat, from Kayne and Sons. My questions are these - does the stuff make forge welding any easier than "plain" anhydrous borax, because of the addition of iron filings? Does the addition of iron filings create "dirty" looking welds when the finished blade is etched? Are EZ Weld or Cherry Heat worth fooling with? Feedback from any of you folks who've used these compounds would be most appreciated!
 
JUST SAY NO TO IRON FILINGS!!!
They'll sometimes create a light-colored seam in a welded joint that looks like a mistake. It looks a lot like an insufficient weld.
 
What about the anhydrous vs. 20 mule team bit? I keep hearing that anhydrous is better, but I've never had any issue with the cheap stuff. Is it really that much better?

Thanks,

-d
 
deker said:
What about the anhydrous vs. 20 mule team bit? I keep hearing that anhydrous is better, but I've never had any issue with the cheap stuff. Is it really that much better?
Click to expand...

I find the anhydrous borax is easier to apply when sprinkling it onto a hot assembly. It's course and heavy, not fine and fluffy. More of it makes it to the metal and isn't blown off course or turned into that puffy white residue you get with 20 mule team.

For dissolving into a heated solution for fluxing wider set ups, I use 20 mule team. For everything else, it's anhydrous.

The addition of a little flourspar is preferred by some for a more aggressive action.
 
EZ Weld is a wonderful flux, if you are welding mild to mild. the addition of the iron filings helps out then, but can make a mess when it comes to damascus. If you want the same mix without the filings, use Cresent welding compound, same stuff, same maker, just no filings.

Ken
 
Deker,

i was an ardent 20 mule team fan until I took a class from Wayne Goddard. We used anhydrous and I never went back. If I use flux it will be anhydrous. Now I said "If", I do most of my welding either in a box or dry. Dry welding involves welding up all the seams or sealing the billet. Clean all surfaces before putting together of course. But I get very good weld results with this method.

Chuck
 
I've used both 20 mule and anhydrous. I've also used the box method. The anhydrous worked so much better than the 20 mule that I'll either do anhydrous or box from now on. I'm much more confident with what I'm doing now than I was with the 20 mule. Confidence means a lot, when you're putting your name on something that you've welded with a hammer!
 
One more bit of advice, find one or maybe two fluxes that you like and stick with them. Learn how they work. You will develop confidence as you become more familiar with how the flux works. if you jump back and forth from flux to flux, you will not develop a good method for welding. One of the best blacksmiths I have ever met made welding look as easy as just looking at the pieces. Once I saw him burn off half of a tong handle because he was given an unfamiliar flux, one that didn't take as much heat as EZ-weld that he had used his entire career.

Personally, I use EZ for blacksmithing, and borax for bladesmithing. A sifter works well to apply thin layers that melt quickly instead of puffing up, so that you get better coverage.

Ken
Ken
 
deker said:
What about the anhydrous vs. 20 mule team bit? I keep hearing that anhydrous is better, but I've never had any issue with the cheap stuff.
Click to expand...

Deker, chemically, once it melts on a hot billet it's the exact same thing. Like JCaswell said, it's all in how it handles. Mule Team is "anhydrous + ten molecules of water". When the Mule Team hits the hot steel, the water boils off very quickly making a vapor cloud and tends to puff up the powder, often falling off. Many people don't like dealing with that. I don't cake it on too thick, then hold it for a moment in the flame at the door to melt it. No problems.

After it melts, they're both sodium tetraborate and nothing else and there's no difference in what they do to the oxides.

Some new damascus makers make the mistake of thinking Boraxo Hand Soap is the same thing. It's not.
 
one thing to point out is, anhydrous borax becomes normal like 20 mule team quite rapidly if not kept in an airtight container, and you can make your own anhydrous borax by baking your 20 mule team in the oven to get hte water out and putting it in a sealed container. Dont leave your anhydrous borax open to the air when not using it
 
For those wishing to experiment with fluxes the below items are agents that aid in fluxing and reduction of oxides.Small additions of the items to borax will affect the weld:
borax (sodium tetra-borate)- fluxing agent,excludes oxygen
Fluorospar (calcium fluoride) -fluxing agent
Cryolite (sodium aluminum fluoride) - fluxing agent
Powdered charcoal (carbon) - reducing agent
Saltpetre (sodium/potassium nitrate) - aids in cleaning up surfaces
Boric acid - reduces oxides
Powdered iron (pure Fe)- fine particles reach weld point first,making a faster set to the weld.Can create spots in the steel if used with HC steel.Excellent for mild/mild joints.
Stacy
 
Thanks for all of the information, fellas! I think I'll try making my own anhydrous, since I was give a boat-load of 20 MuleTeam last year. In the meantime, I'll get a little Crescent and see how it does. Will definitely avoid the iron filings:eek: Thanks again, ya'll
 
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