Forge working NS

David Stifle

David Stifle

Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
10,188
hi folks,

I've never tried to forge work nickel silver, but now I need to do so. I was wondering if any of you guys have any advice?
 
I haven't forged it, but I have brazed with it. Iirc it melts at about 1800f, just a bit hotter than brass.
 
I have forged it enough to make S-guards, etc. But truth be known, I've forgotten exactly how its done. I do know it gets brittle as heck so unless you know what the heck you are doing, you're in trouble. As I recall, you heat it up to red hot, cool it in water and forge. But that could be soooo wrong.
 
Nickel silver should be worked cold, and annealed frequently. Annealing consists of heating to red and cooling-quenching is fine as it has no carbon.
 
Yes - heat to dull red, cool to black, quench in water, cold work, re-anneal often. If it becomes "stiff" or stops moving easily under the hammer, re-anneal. Overworking it cold will cause cracking. Don't work it at red heat or it may mush/crack apart.
 
Hi Stacy,
never heard about cooling to black before quenching in annealing copper based non-ferrous alloys...does this apply to brass too?
Thank You :)

Stefano
 
stezann said:
Hi Stacy,
never heard about cooling to black before quenching in annealing copper based non-ferrous alloys...does this apply to brass too?
Thank You :)

Stefano
Click to expand...
Yes, brass to. It can be air cooled or quenched.

I learned the hard way, trying to hot forge a 3 oz bar of red gold years ago. It doesn't work that way!
 
Copper, brass, nickel silver...all are copper alloys. Once the metal cools below the re-crystallization point, it can be safely worked. Black heat, about 900F, is sufficiently below that point to work the metal. The quench just cools it quickly so you can work it without burning yourself..
Working it at red heat will shear it apart along the grain boundaries and it will just mush apart or crack. There is a tiny "red" window between 800 and 1200 that a skilled smith can work in, but failure is a real risk without a lot of skill. I don't recommend it at all.
 
Thanks Stacy & Don,
i erroneously believed it was the quenching which did the annealing in a "reverse mode" respect to steel.
Now, with your explanations it make much more sense to me, let's see if i got it right: it is the recristallization which erases the strain of the cold working, not the quenching.
If you want to get the piece very soft, better to soak at temp for some time or cycle it couple of times? The latter if i understood it right.
 
One annealing cycle, two if the piece has been heavily cold worked, is sufficient normally. There is no need to soak copper alloys, because there are no carbides to dissolve. Just heat evenly and completely and then cool/quench.

The amount of annealing would be the same if you air cooled for five minutes or quenched at black... All the quench gains is time. Considering that there may be as many as ten or more annealing cycles in a copper alloy project ( like drawing out mokume) quenching can save you an hour of time...very valuable in my shop. I also like to have my quenchant slightly acidic to clean the surface a bit at each quench. A tablespoon or two of pickle or a cup of vinegar will work. Obviously, dump the quench tub after use.
 
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