Forged Blades! What next?

[Ebbtide]

I suggested looking to the past as a way to expand the OP's collection of forged bowies.
That Harvey Dean Bell Bowie that was up here in the spring was a knockout.

 

[Kohai999]

I'm not sure I would characterize making historical reproductions innovative, but it has already been mentioned several times in this thread.

Scott Lankton, making the Sutton Hoo Viking sword, that was pretty innovative at the time, as was Buster Warenski making the King Tut dagger, out of gold, an innovative use of materials and techniques. I'm defining innovative as no one else in the previous 50 years or so doing it. In the case of the Tut Dagger and the Sutton Hoo sword, it was more like 1200-2000 years, or so.

I was gonna keep my yap shut, but Mayo invoked my NAme, so here I be. Tom is pretty innovative, too, he makes it look so easy, people forget how hard it is to do. Have any of you ever tried to drill or cut titanium? Never was a material so prone to screwing up the whole job, it is just a nightmare. Titanium is simultaneously gummy AND elastic, it does not cut cleanly, and it sticks to drill bits like glue.

There is innovation, both simple and grandiose. I remember about 10 years ago, you could tell when most blades were forged, because they had waves in them. Jerry Fisk showed a WHOLE bunch of fellows how to do clean, flat grinds, and hand satin finishes that did not look like they were applied by bricks.

I talk about Matt Diskin a lot. What he is doing with nickel/silver mokume' gane is innovative, and unique. I am very good friends with Phillip Baldwin of Shining Wave Metals, and HE had not seen this material done before.

This is just an example.

Innovation is all around us, but of the points made, I think the collector working with the maker, and having some good ideas, and the maker being able to incorporate them is key.

While I did not care for the bowie that I think Sfreddo made for Stephen Foster, it was a great example of innovation, making something happen that would not have otherwise occurred. Same thing with Keith Montgomery and his Goo/WildRose project, very unique, not my taste necessarily, but his vision, and unique.

The Bowie step-by-step that Michael Burch had posted recently was one of my collaborations. Not only did I supply the mokume' gane, but I had a lot of input into how the knife turned out, some liked it, some did not, but I really liked it, more innovation!

As collectors get more sophisticated and communicate ideas with clarity, using the internet as one of the many tools to learn more, and quickly, we will see more innovation in all areas.

I don't think that an award is worth very much, compared to the sale of a knife, and as far as bringing more people into the community, the collectors will drive that truck as much as anyone else. I have brought at least 10 newbie collectors to this "church". All of you should, if you can, as well.

That Harvey Dean Bell Bowie that was up here in the spring was a knockout.

I personally hated that piece, but you all know how I feel about historic repros. I thought that it was a huge waste of time, and Harvey should have gotten 50%(non-refundable) up front for the work that went into that knife.

Good question, good points by everyone.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Bastid]

Cristof's knives do belong on that list. One of my always must see when I am anywhere near him. Another guy I want to order from.

My friend Wulf makes an excellent point. I did not mean to infer that traditional knives = innovation, my point was to show that I am a collecting piece of irony in having a passion for them in small knives and daggers and a stong perference for more innovative designs in big blades. I just find that odd about my tastes.

I will say that many of the traditional makers put a lot of time and effort in their studies (Vince, Ron, Bruce for example) and they do come up with innovative techniques to produce those historically inspired works.

When I look at Tai's shop and the way he makes knives, it becomes clear to me that he is just as much of an artist as he is a knife maker. Talk about creativity, you have too keep in mind that he is a minimalist when it comes to his making methods and tools. He has a video from a few years ago that is an eye-opener when it comes to raw talent with few tools. I think you could put him on an island with a couple of big rocks, some wood and some sand with metal in it and he would go to work making incredible designs. As a matter of fact, I would venture to say he could do it and the thing is he would enjoy every minute of it.

I am loving this thread and ALL of it's responses. Nice post above this one . All of you are making me think!

 

[Megalobyte]

"The individual, the great artist when he comes, uses everything that has been discovered or known about his art up to that point, being able to accept or reject in a time so short it seems that the knowledge was born with him, rather than that he takes instantly what it takes the ordinary man a lifetime to know, and then the great artist goes beyond what has been done or known and makes something of his own." Ernest Hemingway

Mmmmmmmmmm, donuts. --- Homer Simpson

Not to be confused with the author of the Iliad and the Odyssey.

I hope this gives you guys something to really ponder, in the meantime, I'm heading over to the 24 hr Krispy Creme drive through, talk about innovation, these guys are doing things with saturated fat you wouldn't believe, definitely an art form.

 

[Bastid]

Mmmmmmmmmm, donuts. --- Homer Simpson

Not to be confused with the author of the Iliad and the Odyssey.

LOL must be the pre show syndrome. Can't wait to see what you bring back from Guild.

 

[RWS]

Mmmmmmmmmm, donuts. --- Homer Simpson

Not to be confused with the author of the Iliad and the Odyssey.

I hope this gives you guys something to really ponder, in the meantime, I'm heading over to the 24 hr Krispy Creme drive through, talk about innovation, these guys are doing things with saturated fat you wouldn't believe, definitely an art form.

LMAO! I couldn't agree more.

After you're done eating your KK donuts, maybe you can help me figure out what the hell Ernest Hemingway was mumbling about in that quote I left above because it makes no sense....

 

[Ebbtide]

I personally hated that piece, but you all know how I feel about historic repros. I thought that it was a huge waste of time, and Harvey should have gotten 50%(non-refundable) up front for the work that went into that knife.

Like they say a butt for every seat.

And I agree that Mr. Dean should have received that 50%, minimum.
But that's a customer issue, not a style or workmanship issue.

 

[Kohai999]

Like they say a butt for every seat.

And I agree that Mr. Dean should have received that 50%, minimum.
But that's a customer issue, not a style or workmanship issue.

Yup, yer right, there is a butt for every seat(one of my favorite quotes from a "renegade" knifemaker)

It IS a customer issue, but those frequently determine how much "innovation", or how far out of a "comfort zone"(readut on a limb) a knifemaker will put themselves.

I use Bailey Bradshaw's recent posting of the Sawby lock folder he did as an example. If he did not have a customer that he was working with to "patronize" the project, regardless of how your or I felt about it, he might not, and probably would not have completed it. Without that "comfort zone" being pushed, we are "stuck" with the same bowies and hunters and tactical folders that we have been seeing for the last 10 years, simply because they sell, to the lowest common denominator.

Good Stuff!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Wulf, I think that you are correct. My recommendations were more about variety and diversity thatn innovation. It seemed that Stephen looking for something different as much as he was looking for innovation.

 

[Stephen F]

I am enjoying the responses in this thread, and agree that customers can play a key role .... I am working with two makers at the moment who are trying some new things for the projects, and I can't wait to see the finished articles.

Some of the names in this thread will be added into my list for future contact also (if they weren't already there ). But my point/question is as much about how to go about stimulating new interest(read collectors) and new ideas. I don't for one minute think that there is one defining answer or way of doing this, just think that one of the ways could be a small step in this direction.

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[Wulf]

By the way, I agree, as others have alluded, that there's a lot of room to be innovative in historical reproductions. One can be traditional with a design, and still be innovative with materials or process.

Take Kevin Cashen, for example. This is a bladesmith who will make a Viking Sword that looks like it might've been carried by Erik the Red himself. Except he uses the best steels, heat treats in digitally controlled salt-pots, then puts on a lab-coat and glasses and tests his blades in a heavily fortified top secret underground laboratory installation before finishing them. At least I think it's underground. Whatever. The point is that even in his historically inspired pieces, the man is truly innovative. He's constantly raising the bar in the matellurgy of bladesmithing and preaching the gospel to his customers and disciples alike. The whole community benefits from it.

Others have mentioned Tai Goo. Tai is a true artist-bladesmith. He gets innovative not only in design, with his fantastically inspired art pieces, but also with his techniques as he applies them to traditional knives. His bush knives, for example, are inspired by traditional designs, but his handle wraps, and the way he heat treats and polishes his blades is totally unique and most definitely innovative. I remember one piece he made that had a transition zone that reflected the colors of the rainbow when held in the light. Unreal...

Indeed, there's room for innovation in almost all aspects of knifemaking, it just takes a little more effort, some inspiration, ingenuity, and perhaps an occasional flash of genius to do it. And in a world where the number of smiths making "Arkansas-style" knives seems to grow exponentially every year, it's the innovative makers that stand out more and more.

 

[ptgdvc]

If you go to the Wallace Collection in London, you will quickly realize that there is absolutely "nothing new under the sun" regarding edged weapons. We may forget about some type of blade or forging technique, and imagine that we have created something new, when we have merely re-invented it. I manage to content myself with classical forged designs with subtle variations.

 

[Stephen F]

I manage to content myself with classical forged designs with subtle variations.

I think at the heart of what I am saying Peter is that there is a possibility that at some time in the future, fewer and fewer people may find that sufficient, especially if there are fewer new collectors coming to the forged knife community, so what about some pre-emptive experiments, especially if no one gets hurt ..... only time will tell, but I think I have an idea for another thread!

Stephen

 

[ptgdvc]

New collectors need to become interested in custom knives.

It is a public relations task that will require the thoughtful writing of interesting articles for placement in a wide range of speciality publications and the creation of interesting events and contests which will generate their own publicity. Unfortunately, there does appear to be any serious interest by any person or entity in paying a professional to do that job. It won't get done with smoke, mirrors, and good intentions.

The alternative senario is that many new makers will find it increasingly difficult to sell their knives, unless they are considered to be in the top "NIFTY FIFTY", and will fall by the wayside. Perhaps the truth of the matter is that full time makers will be few and far between and that part time hobby makers is where the future lies.

 

[Bill DeShivs]

I think damascus has been used to death. I understand the challenges of making it, and it can be pretty. I doubt that it offers any real advantage over modern steels, or even a lot of old steels. I think the makers of damascus could better spend some of their time forging carbon or stainless into interesting shapes. I have been involved in the knife business since the 1960s, in one way or another. There have always been fads. First there were custom hunting knives, then bowies, then daggers and boot knives, then came the art knives, tantos, and those God-awful fantasy knives. Damascus has held on longer than most, largely due to the ABS and Blade magazine.
I do admire the makers of this steel, but feel it has been marketed to death.
Bill DeShivs