Forged in Fire. Am I mising something?

J

Jeff Zimba

Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
81
I've been binge watching the last year of "Forged in Fire". Its a great place for a noob like me to learn and get new ideas. But I have a few questions.

First, they never temper anything. Everything goes from quenching to finishing and they must be drawing them out imho. Can anyone shed light on this? I thought it would be a great learning opportunity, but even as a new knife guy I can pick up little problems.

Secondly, I'm new here too, but I've picked up grumbling about the show in general. Is it just the case like me, where because I've been manufacturing guns for almost 3 decades, I pick up all the little obscure stuff, or is there something else I'm not aware of?

I appreciate any light that could be shined.

Thanks in advance!

Jeff Z
 
I just watched the latest episode. If you haven't watched it - don't. It was painful to watch. The worst yet.

As for the show, it doesn't really make blade forging, knife making or collecting look bad. It might actually bring more folks into our little blade loving world.

My only gripe is when they refer to every knife as a "weapon" or Marcaida does his "It will Keeeel" thing. The last few episodes he has changed it to "It will cut" so :thumbup: to him for not drawing the attention of the bliss ninnies that look at all knives as Fully-automatic instruments of death.
 
Jeff Zimba said:
I've been binge watching the last year of "Forged in Fire". Its a great place for a noob like me to learn and get new ideas. But I have a few questions.

First, they never temper anything. Everything goes from quenching to finishing and they must be drawing them out imho. Can anyone shed light on this? I thought it would be a great learning opportunity, but even as a new knife guy I can pick up little problems.

Secondly, I'm new here too, but I've picked up grumbling about the show in general. Is it just the case like me, where because I've been manufacturing guns for almost 3 decades, I pick up all the little obscure stuff, or is there something else I'm not aware of?

I appreciate any light that could be shined.

Thanks in advance!

Jeff Z
Click to expand...

They get heat treated after the first challenge. If you enjoy the show and want to watch a bunch of guys who love what they do compete and have a good time, good or bad, then by all means watch the last episode, as Scott, Erin Jonathan and myself gave it our all and if thats not good enough for Rupestris, then bummer, sorry we didnt give the academy award winning performance that he holds the shows standards to, and hopefully the next episode will inspire him to get on the next season and show us all how its done.
 
Eblackmore said:
They get heat treated after the first challenge. If you enjoy the show and want to watch a bunch of guys who love what they do compete and have a good time, good or bad, then by all means watch the last episode, as Scott, Erin Jonathan and myself gave it our all and if thats not good enough for Rupestris, then bummer, sorry we didnt give the academy award winning performance that he holds the shows standards to, and hopefully the next episode will inspire him to get on the next season and show us all how its done.
Click to expand...

You've got me wrong. It isn't that it wasn't good enough for me. I think too much was asked of the contestants. A 55" Claymore? I'm doing some assuming here but I bet there aren't many shops set up to temper or heat treat something of that size and it handicapped both finalists.

What was painful to watch was everyone being pushed to their limit and, as a result, the heat treat suffered, the contestants were made to look like amateurs by dropping their steel or having the vent tube come off their forge, the comments from the judges about the hammer handle, removing pins and assuming the one contestant was going to re-quench.

It made me cringe to see two swords fail because they were rushed.

Congrats on making the show and taking what I thought to be damn near abuse from the producers.
 
Last edited:
Rupestris said:
You've got me wrong. It isn't that it wasn't good enough for me. I think too much was asked of the contestants. A 55" Claymore? I'm doing some assuming here but I bet there aren't many shops set up to temper or heat treat something of that size and it handicapped both finalists.

What was painful to watch was everyone being pushed to their limit and, as a result, the heat treat suffered, the contestants were made to look like amateurs by dropping their steel or having the vent tube come off their forge, the comments from the judges about the hammer handle, removing pins and assuming the one contestant was going to re-quench.

It made me cringe to see two swords fail because they were rushed.

Congrats on making the show and taking what I thought to be damn near abuse from the producers.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, sorry if I came on a bit strong. I get a little defensive of the episode as we all put everything we had into it and even though the bladesmithing turned out a bit disastrous I think the episode really spoke volumes about the character smiths have when they come together and compete under those conditions. Even though mine ended up a fractured, fissure filled turd that was burned to a crisp 30 minutes before the end of the challenge, Im pretty proud I still got it kinda knife shaped and in the quench. I catch some flak about it, but I figure people can either assume I suck from what I managed to turn in for the challenge or google me and check out my work and judge for that. Part of the irony that kills me is my shop is set up for long swords and I make them all of the time, I just couldnt outsmart my coal enough to get to that challenge. Id have loved to take a crack at it.
 
Eblackmore said:
Fair enough, sorry if I came on a bit strong. I get a little defensive of the episode as we all put everything we had into it and even though the bladesmithing turned out a bit disastrous I think the episode really spoke volumes about the character smiths have when they come together and compete under those conditions. Even though mine ended up a fractured, fissure filled turd that was burned to a crisp 30 minutes before the end of the challenge, Im pretty proud I still got it kinda knife shaped and in the quench. I catch some flak about it, but I figure people can either assume I suck from what I managed to turn in for the challenge or google me and check out my work and judge for that.
Click to expand...

:thumbup: And I apologize if my "worst ever" sounded like a slam of the contestants. It was more to the show and how they push the limits. Sometimes the same people that watch and think that you can churn out a knife in three hours are the same that will see a knife fail and assume all of that makers wares are sub-par.

I work in automotive paint as a trainer. What they did on that episode, to me, was like asking me to paint a car in the rain.

I still think the show has its merits and the potential to expand the custom knife world. It just needs to find that happy medium.
 
Jeff Z, what you see above is part of the grumbling you may occasionally hear... when they say it is a "challenge" it is decidedly so, and even more so on some episodes than others. Which is fine, if the public only fully understood the difficulty of having to use a coal forge or weld cable for your first time on TV under a strict time limit.
It is true that the producers could handle the smiths a little more favorably at times. The judges though, I have to say, are very polite fellows and I think that they are focused on positive reinforcement rather than on harsh criticism. So, for TV, I think it has a rather classy air in that way, and people like that about it. Another aspect is the "all blades as weapons" perspective that the show would seem to promote. I don't actually think that's the case, but it's easy for the public to come away with that impression.

The tempering is done by the FiF people after the first round, while the smiths are trying to relax for the day...
 
I love the show. Of course, I am nobody when it comes to the world of blades. This is only my second post on this forum, but it was the show that inspired me to check this place out. I know very little about knives to this point, other than being a guy that has purchased many of them over the years. I actually know people in the industry, but I've never really caught the bug enough to really appreciate their skills. After binge watching the first season, I am inspired to get my feet wet and attempt to make my first knife. Walter Sorrels video on making a knife from a file is my guide this first time. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the talent you guys have. It's quite amazing. The show is what it is. I am smart to enough to know there is more to it than what meets the eye. Doug can be a bit annoying, but all the petty crap aside, the show puts knife makers into a positive light. Kudos to anyone brave enough to put their name and reputation on the line. I have nothing but respect for those that give it a shot, even those with early exits. As for you, Salem, I really enjoyed the episode you were in. Loved the finished project!
 
I like the show and drool over some of the equipment in their shop but just wish I could see the contestants' final finished work when they are able to function with adequate time, at their own pace, and probably in their own shop with more of their own tools. Even so, I always learn something and remind myself that it is primarily entertainment. If it brings more interest to the world of knife making, then great!
 
I like the show and find it interesting. The Marcaida guy comes off as a real weirdo, but otherwise they seem like good people who are putting here craftsman through an incredibly difficult challenge. It's also introduced me to some more custom blade makers that I may purchase from in the future.
 
You can't learn to be a bladesmith from watching FIF anymore then you can become a chef watching "Cut Throat Kitchen". People need to sit back and be entertained and enjoy the show for what it is.

The Best Knifemaking challenge contest TV show on air.
 
Excitement and drama are necessary to the success of the show. That, or a lot of backstabbing and badmouthing each other, which we've seen the exact opposite of so far. The last show displayed 4 knives that were, frankly, difficult to look at. Having gotten used to 3-hour blades(no small task itself) that were forged AND rough ground, they were presented with an extremely difficult task of 4 hours to light your forge, hand crank your forge!?!, hammer out a large round bar into a blade AND heat treat with ZERO grinding. That was UGLY!!! You wouldn't stick Bobby Flay in a kitchen and say "OK, Bobby, you've got to compete on Iron Chef, but you've also got to cook on a campfire in 90 minutes!" To do that to the knifemakers was an insult. "And no one in the kitchen managed to keep their souffles from falling, due to the in-studio rock band playing really loud during commercial breaks!" Right?

The contestants have all been portrayed as very competent, except in the last show. Broken blades, constantly dropped hot steel, "Cranking on a blower for 30 minutes with no results", "I can't believe he's going to re-harden his edge", and not just one final blade failure but two portrayed the bladesmiths in the worst light of any episode so far. I understand that they have to show a little struggle following Salem's excellent performance, but they went way too far in the other direction.

It could real quickly devolve into a "who can fail more spectacularly" type of reality show. I really hope it doesn't.

Earl, none of this is aimed at you or the other contestants. These fears and concerns have been voiced by many and usually aimed at the producers since the beginning, and your episode is simply what we were afraid would happen.
 
Rupestris said:
I just watched the latest episode. If you haven't watched it - don't. It was painful to watch. The worst yet.

As for the show, it doesn't really make blade forging, knife making or collecting look bad. It might actually bring more folks into our little blade loving world.

My only gripe is when they refer to every knife as a "weapon" or Marcaida does his "It will Keeeel" thing. The last few episodes he has changed it to "It will cut" so :thumbup: to him for not drawing the attention of the bliss ninnies that look at all knives as Fully-automatic instruments of death.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. And with your clarification about the reasons that the last episode as the worst so far. It was not bad because of the smiths; it was bad because the (IMO) ridiculous parameters did not allow what I am sure are some very, very, talented smiths to showcase their best work. It seemed to me to be "tricked up" to make it nearly impossible to achieve a high level of success. But those guys were all pros and IMO came off very well in the way they handled a nearly impossible situation with class. Like all of the other smiths who appeared on the show, they were a total credit to the custom knifemaking world.

I like the show very much as it is something even my family enjoys watching with me even though they are not into knives like I am. I have total respect for anyone who has appeared on it. :thumbup:
 
You're not alone...I actually started really liking the show too.

However, When I started watching more I started almost crying when I watch them abuse the hard works these blacksmiths put together. I don't remember which episode it was, but I watched last season and this season and saw them hacking into a damn nail with a knife and baton. I actually started yelling at the TV because I had just finished filing my first knife blade ever and it took me days to finish (kids and wife interrupted me regularly). So when I watched them destroy the knives I lost all respect for the judges and show but the contestants earned every ounce of respect for putting up with it.

When I watched the claymore episode...I thought the show was basically just being stupid pushing people who probably never made a sword to make one. TO me it makes more sense to group the blacksmiths together in what they are best at and have them compete on level ground. You can have knife makers make the best knives they can, medieval weapons makers build picks and hammers, sword makers make swords. Then you have a lot better show and the quality of the products are far better than forcing someone who has never made a sword to make one in their ill equipped shop.
 
wadedeeper said:
I thought the show was basically just being stupid pushing people who probably never made a sword to make one. TO me it makes more sense to group the blacksmiths together in what they are best at and have them compete on level ground. You can have knife makers make the best knives they can, medieval weapons makers build picks and hammers, sword makers make swords. Then you have a lot better show and the quality of the products are far better than forcing someone who has never made a sword to make one in their ill equipped shop.
Click to expand...

I completely agree. That would make much more sense and add variety to the show while simultaniously exposing viewers to other variations of this craft. Good idea:thumbup:
 
Jeff Zimba said:
I've been binge watching the last year of "Forged in Fire". Its a great place for a noob like me to learn and get new ideas.
Click to expand...

Its really not. Youtube, this site and other forums are a place to learn. Forged in fire is NOT educational. it is entertainment. Learning bladesmithing from FIF is like learning forensic science from CSI.
 
I liked the last show.
My wife liked the last show.
I doubt we were the only ones. ;)
 
I know the tests can be somewhat "cringe worthy" to watch, but I did recently read a short article on (I believe it was) their facebook page where they stated that all tests are performed using one of James Neilson's knives first, so that's at least a minor encouragement. ;)

Also, I don't think this was part of what aired on the show, but here's an excerpt from Salem's episode showing the final deliberation on the khopeshes:

http://www.history.com/shows/forged...ist_slug=forged-in-fire-season-2-curated-list
 
I think it's good that they have a show like this, maybe expand our hobby/craft to other areas, and increase our numbers. Nice to see something that isn't all about drama. Having said that, I do have a couple of criticisms, and nothing horrible. First off I think they ought to even things out a bit by experience, I mean if you have three experienced full time knife makers and one hobbyist, the scales aren't exactly balanced, or worse yet you get one who has never attempted the task at hand, and has no clue how to start. Though it would be interesting to see all four out of their element. Criticism #2, when they send them back home for the final challenge one of them may be better set up than the other, personally I don't see why a contestant should be handicapped by the tools (or lack their of) he has. As things stand I forge out of an old wood stove, and do my grinding with files and stones. It works great for small knives, but I'd have a hell of a time making anything over 20 inches (working on propane forge, and belt grinder at the moment). Thirdly: Marcaida's "it will keeell". Nothing against the guy, but no kidding, it's knife, of course it will. I see no reason to focus so much on them being weapons, sure they can be used as, and some are designed to be, but for me I think it should be more about the quality of the blade. Other than that it has to be one of the best shows I've seen in a while.
 
Eblackmore said:
.......I get a little defensive of the episode as we all put everything we had into it and even though the bladesmithing turned out a bit disastrous I think the episode really spoke volumes about the character smiths have when they come together and compete under those conditions.....
Click to expand...

Earl, you stated my (and many other folks) feelings about the show - the smiths were GREAT!!! and handled the issues as true gentlemen of honor. The show itself set the situation hoping for big fails. Like many others, I'd MUCH prefer to see true competition, sword folks vs sword folks, bowie vs bowie...... AND coal vs coal and gas forge vs gas!

My hats off to ANY smith willing to put it on the line and appear on the show.

Ken H>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top