Forged in Fire. Am I mising something?

Spike Shield episode

What a great show. Those guys really put their hearts and hammers into it. It really is one of the few shows I look forward to seeing each week.

Congrats to all the contestants and thanks for making the show such a hit!
 
I had no idea how those shields were going to come out but they were awesome. These contestants have such versatile skills. Every show I watch illustrates how much I have to learn before some day, God willing, I even earn the right to call myself a knife maker with a strait face. For now, and the foreseeable future, I'm just a guy who is learning to make knives. :-) I am in a different galaxy from the ability to even consider swords, shields and such.
 
Jeff, I read something on this forum that made me smile a few years ago. A knife maker wanted to know when he would know if he was a "professional" or so the story goes and several experienced knife makers gave him their opinion of how to tell if was professional. Most asked he could grind a fine bevel, taper a tang, dovetail his bolsters, tightly fit a guard, forge Damascus that would heat treat without fail and so on. Then one knife maker asked how many sheets of abrasive he ordered in each grit when he bought sandpaper and he replied fifty or a hundred and the older knife maker said you are probably a "professional" now. I gleefully told my wife that night that I had finally become a "professional". Maybe I think too well of myself but I think there is value in the story because it shows patience and intent in working and doing the job to your best. I don't think anyone can fail with perseverance and work...just like many other things. I always buy lots of sandpaper just to reassure myself that I'm getting somewhere. Good luck. Larry
 
LARRYZ10 said:
Jeff, I read something on this forum that made me smile a few years ago. A knife maker wanted to know when he would know if he was a "professional" or so the story goes and several experienced knife makers gave him their opinion of how to tell if was professional. Most asked he could grind a fine bevel, taper a tang, dovetail his bolsters, tightly fit a guard, forge Damascus that would heat treat without fail and so on. Then one knife maker asked how many sheets of abrasive he ordered in each grit when he bought sandpaper and he replied fifty or a hundred and the older knife maker said you are probably a "professional" now. I gleefully told my wife that night that I had finally become a "professional". Maybe I think too well of myself but I think there is value in the story because it shows patience and intent in working and doing the job to your best. I don't think anyone can fail with perseverance and work...just like many other things. I always buy lots of sandpaper just to reassure myself that I'm getting somewhere. Good luck. Larry
Click to expand...

That's beautiful. Perfect actually. In the firearms industry I've been a licensed manufacturer of NFA firearms for over 2 decades . I've had hundreds of articles published in several countries and published my first book with a few more in the works. I'm still a perpetual student of the gun. I leave expert status to those who learned about guns playing video games and maybe assembled a kit gun or two. I would much rather be a knuckle drafting trigger puller who still has the ability to learn every day. :-)
 
I enjoy the show quite a bit actually. I have to suspend my disbelief sometimes, but hey, it's television... :P

I'm more than a bit surprised they let Ilya etch "BKS" on his blade. Maybe that's how Ilya/FIF got them to let him go long enough to do the episode? ;)
 
Well at least I have learned a few things watching the show. I now know how to test my knives to know if they are made correctly. I just bought a bag of 5" x 1/4" nails, and will baton through them with my entire collection. I hope they all pass. ;)

I too felt bad with the coal forge curve ball. My first thought was, "great, the producers have hit rock bottom looking for more entertainment factor." But in the end, the contestants proved to have more grit than the producers or judges.

I did really feel bad when that sword side slapped the pig, instead of hitting edge first. Sure there was a lot of flex, but really want to know what would have happened if it was not biffed. I had to stop the DVR and watch it again in slow-mo just to verify what I thought I saw. Sure enough, the "expert" rotated the entire thing sideways. That was a raw deal.
 
Being 14 i do think the show could benifit from a "youth" special, but really though there are definetly enough teens who bladesmith to get 4 people together and it would make for a very interesting episode :)
 
Willie71 said:
I have a question for Salem: do the smiths have a better understanding of heat treat than the show lets on? The heat treat they show in the vast majority of cases is pretty basic. That may be because of the specific projects exceed the smiths' equipment, but I've been curious.
Click to expand...

I can't speak for the other episodes too much, or many of the other smiths. I can say that Zack Jonas and Chis Marks are very knowledgeable HT and forging guys, from my conversations with them. I have seen several other episodes where clearly the makers knew what they were doing with HT. In particular, salt pot HT from Matt Parkinson and Jamie Lundell.

I think it's just more that the show does not give much play to the HT side of things. In episode 2 most if not all of us took more pains in HT than was shown. Even I, who really was down to the wire going into the quench, took the time to normalize once. When I made the Khopesh, I normalized 3 times and sub-critical annealed the blade after forging, and talked about what I was doing. That was not shown. I guess it does not make the cut, when they are prioritizing what to show with the limited time available.
Another thing is, temp cycles do take time, and time is at a premium especially in the studio. I know I significantly cut back from what I normally do. Same with the handle, blade finish, you name it. It's just a bare bones "knife" you make there.
 
Salem Straub said:
I can't speak for the other episodes too much, or many of the other smiths. I can say that Zack Jonas and Chis Marks are very knowledgeable HT and forging guys, from my conversations with them. I have seen several other episodes where clearly the makers knew what they were doing with HT. In particular, salt pot HT from Matt Parkinson and Jamie Lundell.

I think it's just more that the show does not give much play to the HT side of things. In episode 2 most if not all of us took more pains in HT than was shown. Even I, who really was down to the wire going into the quench, took the time to normalize once. When I made the Khopesh, I normalized 3 times and sub-critical annealed the blade after forging, and talked about what I was doing. That was not shown. I guess it does not make the cut, when they are prioritizing what to show with the limited time available.
Another thing is, temp cycles do take time, and time is at a premium especially in the studio. I know I significantly cut back from what I normally do. Same with the handle, blade finish, you name it. It's just a bare bones "knife" you make there.
Click to expand...

Thanx, that makes sense. I've seen a few guys using kilns or salt pots with temp control on the show, but a lot of heat it untill its red and dunk. The show is lacking in nerd factor. :D

Btw, great work in your episode. :thumbup:
 
Jack Henry said:
Being 14 i do think the show could benifit from a "youth" special, but really though there are definetly enough teens who bladesmith to get 4 people together and it would make for a very interesting episode :)
Click to expand...

Im not so sure. I started this 3 years ago when I was 16. The last thing I needed was a REASON to get into making knives. And I do hate to say it but the absolute worst people to come by shop are the 14 and 15 year old who always ask to make a sword.
 
I've always wondered why the smiths who finish quenching their blade with plenty of time on the clock remaining don't take one of the multiple torches in the studio and use it to run the colors from spine to edge. That way they can ensure that they are at least getting two tempers and also getting a nice springy spine, as well as making a safety net for the amount of time it takes the "temper guys" to temper the blades since the were first quenched. I know a lot of times, people have had a lot of problems with cracks and more warps developing if their blades were not tempered directly after quenching. I've had this thought since at least the second show of the first season, which is why I'm more puzzled that I haven't seen anybody use this technique yet. :confused:

Also, Salem (or anybody else here who might know), do you happen to know if they allow you (the smith) to choose what temperature you want your specific blade to be tempered at? To me this seems like to important of a variable to simply take every single blade and temper them all at 400F or w/e (if that's indeed what they do) since the knives come in all different shapes, sizes and all different steel types, not to mention the wide range of testing they implement, which is different for every episode.

Anybody else here every wonder these things as well, or have any thoughts???

BTW, I enjoy the show very much. Just PLEASE put the smiths LAST NAMES on the screen for goodness sake! lol

And just in case you never saw it in one of the many threads regarding FIF here, a huge congrats to you again, Salem , it was a pleasure watching you forge, and win! :D ;)


~Paul
My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
Last edited:
Thanks Paul! All I can say is that in my experience, none of us were asked or told anything really about the tempering process, other than that it would be done for us.
 
Did any of the makers question or object to this? It's mind boggling to me that one of the most important parts of blade making isn't left to the contestant. In my humble, unbiased, but correct ( ;) ), opinion, this makes any test results more or less meaningless.

Congrats, BTW, on winning. That khopesh was sweet!

Salem Straub said:
Thanks Paul! All I can say is that in my experience, none of us were asked or told anything really about the tempering process, other than that it would be done for us.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Hello,
This is my first post here and I want to say congratulations to all who are brave enough to get out there on a show like this and express your craft. I come from a family of knive and sword collectors and truly appreciate all the work you do! For all the work you get done in those time limits and with the various challenges it is amazing what you all are able to accomplish!

I had my collection stolen a few years ago and have not been able to replace it due to health and subsequent bills resulting from that. I say that not for sympathy but to say that you all have inspired me to look at more individuals who sell these than from just the big knive and sword sellers once I am able to start my collection again.

Honestly I would love to just go to a shop and watch some of these processes in person. If my health was even close to good enough to get into knife making I would possibly try a class on making them. Unfortunately that isn't likely to happen but I thank you all for the entertainment and the inspiration you all have given to me. My dad got me interested in the show and I have been binge watching trying to catch up.

Sorry it is such a long comment and I hope I made sense in these comments. Again I thank you all for showing what you do and your talent in doing so!
 
Welcome to Shop Talk Tabby. When you pull up a thread in a search or browsing around, look at the original post date and last post. This is a two year old thread. Hope your health improves.
 
After finaly seeing a few FIF episodes I'm disapointed.
It has as much to do with knife making as playboy magazine has to do with literature
 
I have started to like the show more lately . It really looks like they are testing the person and not so much experience levels. I wish they would highlight that a bit more but I think some viewers who watch regularly will understand. I think some of the challenges are designed to be performed unconventionaly and are more of a puzzle than pure skill. Since Jay Nielson runs a test challenge I think they are set up to be able to replicate his methods. Maybe that also explains why sometimes there are comments about forging in the tips being good one episode and bad the next:D. If you look at it more like junkyard wars and less like a way to demonstrate skill and workmanship it's easier to appreciate and could be a lot of fun to do in a informal setting.
 
Hengelo_77 said:
After finaly seeing a few FIF episodes I'm disapointed.
It has as much to do with knife making as playboy magazine has to do with literature
Click to expand...

In the first two seasons the judges seemed reluctant to throw in too much knife making jargon. In the later seasons they seem to get a lot more technical about things like proper heat treatment, forge welding, and warping issues.
 
TabbyFantazy said:
Honestly I would love to just go to a shop and watch some of these processes in person.
Click to expand...

Hello Tabby, and I too hope the health improves. In my experience, the folks who are members of the local blacksmithing organization (NWBA in my case) are, for the vast majority, more than willing to have fellow members stop by and watch how they do what they do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top