Forged in Fire , March 1 episode

I had a conversation with Jay Fisher about this kind of thing. Its foolish to expect a T.V show to focus on the intricacies of bladesmithing, because that doesnt sell. The networks arent selling making blades, they are selling the IDEA. People love when someone on T.V fails at something because it lets them think "O I could do that."

Real knife making is hard! Of course its fun, but its really difficult, and often pretty boring to watch. How many of you would watch a guy hand sanding a knife to get a good hamon for 45 minutes? Or filing down the ricasso of a bowie to get a perfect fit.

Jay told me he once had a guy come by who planned to film/ watch the whole process of making a knife, but the guy left after 2 hours of straight grinding.

The show is about selling an idea. In the same way a show like CSI lets people think they understand forensic science by just grazing the surface of what is a massive topic, the show lets every 14 year old who dreams about Conan feel like he can make a sword. Because it leaves out all the real steps. When I watched Salem's episode and he was making his Kopesh, they spent about 2/3 of the time just on him welding up the damascus. They had a 3 or 4 second clip of him grinding the bevel. Not a single shot of sanding the blade, or making the handle, just weld up a bar of steel and bim bam boom you have a sword.
 
In general, I see way too much focus these days on " that's cool" aspect and not enough in finished performance of the works and accepting a "good enough" attitude related to finished perforce of the tool. The geometry of the profile for example. I believe this was shown in the Khopesh episode. Yes, winning blade was beautiful, but on both winning blades I believe primary attention was focused on design performance of the tool. This is what really sank in for me watching Salem work.
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My primary focus was not on making a pretty thing at all. It was on historical accuracy, and performance. What you see on the show is the result of heavy editing. You think they film you work for five days, and can really leave in most of what you did? Not at all. They did not show me building an extended length forge especially to be able to nail the HT on this quite long weapon. They did not show me talking about geometry, and what tests I expected it to have to pass. They did not show me reasoning out that it would have to heavily chop in the tests, being descended from a type of axe. They didn't show me puzzling out the balance of the weapon, and building a test handle to make sure it felt right in the grip.
Actually, I believe that I am just arguing your point for you! I guess I found your wording a bit ambiguous.

When I watched Salem's episode and he was making his Kopesh, they spent about 2/3 of the time just on him welding up the damascus. They had a 3 or 4 second clip of him grinding the bevel. Not a single shot of sanding the blade, or making the handle, just weld up a bar of steel and bim bam boom you have a sword.
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This proves my point. I spent a day on the steel, then a day forging and grinding... the forging and grinding day was passed over with (I believe) no shot at all of me hand forging the profile, and as Ben says, a few seconds of grinding! The editing has a huge effect in terms of conveying the experience to the viewer. No sense of proportion was really preserved. I mean, I spent like four hours on the milling machine with the handle, and a fair bit of time on the surface grinder... if anything I was a little disappointed that they didn't show off those two machines of mine!

That said, I think that for the most part FiF has been doing a fine job and learning a bit with every episode. I feel vindicated in the reasons for which I appeared on the show, which included being an ambassador for the craft, to the public at large.
 
Salem Straub said:
the reasons for which I appeared on the show, which included being an ambassador for the craft, to the public at large.
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And I'm sure the ten grand you won didn't hurt ;)

But about your point of not showing all the steps, I think that's part of the plan. Several people in my dorm have been watching the show "is got to brag about knowing a winner" but they had a conversation with me about the blades theyou planned to make.

Though to be honest. Planned is an exaggeration. The blade theyou dreamed of making. 600 layer meteoric iron Damascus, integral bolsters and buttcaps, you name it. I tried to explain how difficult that is like the buzz kill I am, but they insisted you just "hit the metal into shape".


That is the idea that keeps people watching. The idea that by watching this cut down and watered down version of bladesmithing, minus the hard, tiring grunt work you are becoming a master smith.
 
Salem, and others, thanks for more input on the show.

I know my son's and I have really enjoyed it.



I'm not going to lie, I've had some real anguish and joy at watching people whom I recognize have success and failures.

I do feel like the show often glosses over aspects that are important.

Part of the high rate of failure is being put in a shop with tools and methods you are not used to. The forges did not appear to be temp controlled. The steels are often unknown. Lighting is different from what you use if you are forging and eyeballing temperatures in your own shop.

I've made one knife. I did the heat treat in a charcoal grill, on my back patio. Used a fan for air to get the charcoal up to temp. Magnet and eyeball for the heat treat.

Making that cappy little knife took me forever. Learning the whole while.

I'm no expert, but I do have enough knowledge after years and years of reading and watching how to videos and reading what the experts here say to recognize when some one is making mistakes on the show.

Cold forging, trying to hammer a handle onto the tang, etc.

I still find the show entertaining.

I think there would be a market for a show that went the opposite route, with proper time to do everything right. I just don't know how that would be condensed down into a manageable show.
 
I do think one of the things that make the show more enjoyable is having some of the knifesmiths from the show on our forum to discuss the aspects they are allowed to discuss from the show - yes, reading their writings sure does make FiF MUCH better.

AND - I wish to say THANK YOU to all for their efforts on FiF and the writing ya'll are doing here.

Ken H>
 
Greenberg Woods said:
I had a conversation with Jay Fisher about this kind of thing. Its foolish to expect a T.V show to focus on the intricacies of bladesmithing, because that doesnt sell. The networks arent selling making blades, they are selling the IDEA. People love when someone on T.V fails at something because it lets them think "O I could do that."

Real knife making is hard! Of course its fun, but its really difficult, and often pretty boring to watch. How many of you would watch a guy hand sanding a knife to get a good hamon for 45 minutes? Or filing down the ricasso of a bowie to get a perfect fit.

Jay told me he once had a guy come by who planned to film/ watch the whole process of making a knife, but the guy left after 2 hours of straight grinding.

The show is about selling an idea. In the same way a show like CSI lets people think they understand forensic science by just grazing the surface of what is a massive topic, the show lets every 14 year old who dreams about Conan feel like he can make a sword. Because it leaves out all the real steps. When I watched Salem's episode and he was making his Kopesh, they spent about 2/3 of the time just on him welding up the damascus. They had a 3 or 4 second clip of him grinding the bevel. Not a single shot of sanding the blade, or making the handle, just weld up a bar of steel and bim bam boom you have a sword.
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I'm a Forensic Specialist so I love the CSI analogy. I quite enjoy the FiF series. Because of it I decided to give making my own knife a try. I likely only every be a hobbiest thought. Nothing but mad respect for anyone who would make knives full time and more respect for the participants on the show. Took me three hours just to cut out my profile with a hacksaw and files. The show sparked an interest and caused me to look to other resources for more detailed info. I would bet I'm not the only one who's taken an interest because of the show.
 
Earl, what amazed me about the episode was how both you and Scott were able to maintain a positive and even lighthearted attitude when things would go wrong, despite what I'd imagine was a tremendous amount of pressure. I remember a guy last season who had kind of a meltdown when things started to go poorly, and then seemed to take it pretty hard when he didn't advance to the 2nd round. I probably would have been that guy (that is, of course, assuming I had both the guts and the talent to try out for the show, which I do not.). So it always impresses me to see people who can maintain composure and keep their spirits up even when things don't go as planned. My hat's off to you, man.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
There is no criticism for any smith thats been on the show or plans on going. My hat is off to all of you win or lose.

Its the focus of the show that disturbs me. Instead of scripting the show so as to allow all the smiths to put their skills on display, it has become a "gotcha event.
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thumbsup
 
East Branch Knives said:
Earl, what amazed me about the episode was how both you and Scott were able to maintain a positive and even lighthearted attitude when things would go wrong, despite what I'd imagine was a tremendous amount of pressure. I remember a guy last season who had kind of a meltdown when things started to go poorly, and then seemed to take it pretty hard when he didn't advance to the 2nd round. I probably would have been that guy (that is, of course, assuming I had both the guts and the talent to try out for the show, which I do not.). So it always impresses me to see people who can maintain composure and keep their spirits up even when things don't go as planned. My hat's off to you, man.
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Thank you, I appreciate it. I was so jazzed about being on the show I had a good time through the whole thing, even when it was apparent that things were pretty much pointing to me being the first man out. The other contestants were a great bunch of guys and I didnt feel at all bad losing to them. I was a little bummed when I found out the final challenge was a claymore. I love making big swords and would have been pretty excited to take a crack at the final challenge.
 
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