"Forged In Fire" on TV: Any thoughts?

I'm not wild about destructive testing; but I don't see any other way to objectively evaluate the knives...
 
I feel like there’s been a few posts after the necro that question the competency of the judges: the judges for this show, outside of Marcaida, are master smiths. You’re questioning the competency of smiths who are considered by the only judging (afaik) body within smithing to be worthy of the title of “master”. Not sure how many people replying having actually forged and smithed a blade, but if you haven’t done it for any reasonable length of time, then you really are not in a position to question the legitimacy of the judges.
 
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Bob Denman said:
I'm not wild about destructive testing; but I don't see any other way to objectively evaluate the knives...
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Well, you could always try more real-world testing such as rope cutting (which they do occasionally) , paper slicing, 2x4 chopping, feather-sticking, or cardboard cutting,

But of course, all those things are MUCH too boring for TV. We need to see outrageous and ridiculous tests with the chance of catastrophic failures. Truth be told, I do like when they do the swine/goat slice, however. :)
 
Murdamook said:
I feel like there’s been a few posts after the necro that question the competency of the judges: the judges for this show, outside of Marcaida, are master smiths. You’re questioning the competency of smiths who are considered by the only judging (afaik) body within smithing to be worthy of the title of “master”. Not sure how many people replying having actually forged and smithed a blade, but if you haven’t done it for any reasonable length of time, then you really are not in a position to question the legitimacy of the judges.
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For the record, Ben Abbott and David Baker are not ABS MasterSmiths, to my knowledge.
 
Quiet said:
For the record, Ben Abbott and David Baker are not ABS MasterSmiths, to my knowledge.
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I thought Baker was, I am wrong though. According to some other sources not related to FiF, he is a world renowned sword smith. Baker and Nielsen are, and it bums me out that Baker doesn’t do the show anymore. Not sure where Abbott lies. Either way, I’m highly suspicious of randos on the BFC judging their smithing knowledge when their credentials aren’t hidden. Both Baker and Abbott for sure have smithing chops.

I still think the show should be taken at face value: History channel was never actually a paragon of historicity and always had a bent toward entertainment rather than actual education.
 
Murdamook said:
I thought Baker was, I am wrong though. According to some other sources not related to FiF, he is a world renowned sword smith. Baker and Nielsen are, and it bums me out that Baker doesn’t do the show anymore. Not sure where Abbott lies. Either way, I’m highly suspicious of randos on the BFC judging their smithing knowledge when their credentials aren’t hidden. Both Baker and Abbott for sure have smithing chops.

I still think the show should be taken at face value: History channel was never actually a paragon of historicity and always had a bent toward entertainment rather than actual education.
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I'm not sure I've seen people questioning their knowledge in this thread. It's clear to everyone that Baker, Abbott, and Nielson know their stuff. I just think people are just tired of the "Take something and absolutely destroy it doing something that no knife was designed to do." method of testing. I get why they do it, but it's still not something I, as a big knife fan, find entertaining. It's even more painful when a smith has turned into something very well made, and good looking. Sure, the "KEEEEEEEEL test" is fun, always fun watching dummies and hanging pigs getting savaged, but watching destruction tests, and worse, using them as some sort of criteria just seems dumb. Also, I personally am not a smith, but imagining if I was, and watching the glee with which J. Neilson tries to destroy something that I made, I wouldn't be pleased or entertained by that.

Also, for what it's worth, FiF has NEVER been a realistic portrayal of knife smithing. It's primarily entertainment. I've spoken with people about the show, and they have had no idea that pieces of the smithing/knifemaking process are cut in order to keep the pace of the show going. Hell, it's only been in the latest season where we see tempering ovens for the first time actually being used.
 
Quiet said:
I'm not sure I've seen people questioning their knowledge in this thread. It's clear to everyone that Baker, Abbott, and Nielson know their stuff. I just think people are just tired of the "Take something and absolutely destroy it doing something that no knife was designed to do." method of testing. I get why they do it, but it's still not something I, as a big knife fan, find entertaining. It's even more painful when a smith has turned into something very well made, and good looking. Sure, the "KEEEEEEEEL test" is fun, always fun watching dummies and hanging pigs getting savaged, but watching destruction tests, and worse, using them as some sort of criteria just seems dumb. Also, I personally am not a smith, but imagining if I was, and watching the glee with which J. Neilson tries to destroy something that I made, I wouldn't be pleased or entertained by that.

Also, for what it's worth, FiF has NEVER been a realistic portrayal of knife smithing. It's primarily entertainment. I've spoken with people about the show, and they have had no idea that pieces of the smithing/knifemaking process are cut in order to keep the pace of the show going. Hell, it's only been in the latest season where we see tempering ovens for the first time actually being used.
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Yeah, it was only in the most recent episode that one of the smiths even mentioned normalization. I’ve never heard it mentioned before on the show. You don’t see much of it either.
 
Quiet said:
Also, for what it's worth, FiF has NEVER been a realistic portrayal of knife smithing. It's primarily entertainment. I've spoken with people about the show, and they have had no idea that pieces of the smithing/knifemaking process are cut in order to keep the pace of the show going. Hell, it's only been in the latest season where we see tempering ovens for the first time actually being used.
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All good points. It is an entertainment show, and that is how it stays on the air. If it followed the strict protocol of forging a knife, not much would be done in an hour, and besides, it would be called instructive/educational. And by most people, boring. If it showed development of forging techniques including material selection by different masters of the craft, different techniques and how they developed them, it would be called a documentary. I have never seen the show itself (despite the misplaced hurt feelings of some when watching it) claim to be instructive, educational, tutorial or beneficial to the knife making community. Not once. That is because it is entertainment!

But the value to me is as described above. It has been good to see some younger guys a gun shows making knives to sell, folks getting into some kind of craft. Something to take them away from their phones. There is a small town about 60 miles north of me here in S. Texas that has a farrier school with a great instructor. To raise money for his shop for equipment and materials, he instructs the students on how to forge knives using the old farrier's rasps and files. They go to the gun shows when they have enough to sell during the school year, and they actually turn out some nice looking stuff. Granted, more utility in value than pieces of art, but hey... good work overall. They can only sell what the instructor approves as he doesn't want the kids to sell junk and ruin their reputation or the school's.

Surprisingly, he told me that out of his graduates over the years, a couple are full time smiths (still doing farrier work but selling knives, too) and some are part time. He credited FiF as the boys got excited to be able to build a knife that they could chop, hack, smash and sometimes cut things with. I am thinking that if I was 16 years old and already at the forge, why wouldn't I want to get in on that after watching it on TV? The instructor told me even if the boys didn't stay with it, they all had a lot of fun at the shop making and "testing" their knives.
 
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Personally, I like the show. It's one of my favorites. I'm not a knife maker, nor do I plan to start forging any time soon. The test are ridiculous, but there are some knives that survive. I guess those smith's are VERY talented. The KEEL test is my favorite part also as others have said. These are just my humble opinion though.
 
It's a TV SHOW and there's nothing more "entertaining" than watching a knife being broken on FIF. The anticipation/worry about a knife possibly breaking is almost as compelling.

A lot of complex feelings occur to me (and I'm sure, others) when I see a knife break:

1) D*mn, I really feel sorry for that guy! :(
2) D*mn, I'm glad that's not MY knife! :)
3) D*mn, did you see how that knife broke! Which is replayed multiple times, of course. LOL! ;)

So, as long as we have such feelings, the producers & judges will keep coming up w/ways to try break knives on FIF because it's part of the "entertainment."

Would anyone want to watch the show if all they did was cut cardstock or rope endlessly to test for "edge retention?" I think not.
 
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Aside from entertainment value, the "aggressive" testing provides more concrete and obvious judging criteria. If they didn't do it, nothing would break, no edges would chip/roll, no parts would come loose, etc. So all the knives would end up performing about the same, and the judge's would have to look at the finer details every time to make their decision.
 
For newbies it may bring more people into the "knife world".
Now if they could combine it with Moonshiners..that would be entertainment for all.
 
I can't resist watching it and it is usually entertaining. I've been a little surprised recently at how inexperienced the smiths are (many with just 2-4 years). People are collecting a lot of tools quickly. One thing I'd like to see is a quick feature of some of each smith's best work. It would give the viewer a better sense of what is possible without time limits and also promote the smiths a bit more.
 
Richard338 said:
I can't resist watching it and it is usually entertaining. I've been a little surprised recently at how inexperienced the smiths are (many with just 2-4 years). People are collecting a lot of tools quickly. One thing I'd like to see is a quick feature of some of each smith's best work. It would give the viewer a better sense of what is possible without time limits and also promote the smiths a bit more.
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And may I add...look at how they have progressed since their exposure to the show.
 
Murdamook said:
I thought Baker was, I am wrong though. According to some other sources not related to FiF, he is a world renowned sword smith. Baker and Nielsen are, and it bums me out that Baker doesn’t do the show anymore. Not sure where Abbott lies. Either way, I’m highly suspicious of randos on the BFC judging their smithing knowledge when their credentials aren’t hidden. Both Baker and Abbott for sure have smithing chops.

I still think the show should be taken at face value: History channel was never actually a paragon of historicity and always had a bent toward entertainment rather than actual education.
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History Channel for education? Are you telling me Nostradamus didn't predict Donald Trump would become President or aliens didn't build the pyramids???
 
Aliens.jpg
 
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