Forged/not forged (only grounded) blades?

I would caution you gentlemen, when you test and publish you stick your neck out. When your tests do not exactly follow tradition and what is popular you make enemies. Personally I bleieve it is worth it, for the facts you publish may save a life one day at the extreme or simply make life a little better for those who read and follow your example.

There are some nondestructive tests everyone can do. Some collectors have started etching the blades they buy, their results are very interesting and if published would result in turbulent times. The etch is a simple experimen, very revealing and highly honest when you know how to read the message it bears.
 
Shane, and Ed
There is something i have been wondering about a lot lately. My hypothesis is that while it may have been proven by Ed and Wayne that the forged blades performed better, was it as a result of the forging, or could just the thermal cycles the blade went through have a large part in the grain size and the performance of the blade. Did you adress this issue with your tests Ed?
Shane my suggestion would be to subject all of your test blades both the forged and stock removal to similar thermal cycles, by this I mean when you are forging the blade you heat it up close to critical, and let it cool in air, which is basically similar to a normalizing cycle, so for everytime you heat up your forged blade heat up your stock blade as well, just don't hit it with a hammer. This will eliminate some variables in your test, and make it more scientific.
I have noticed personally that the more I normalize a blade the finer the grain becomes, thanks to a post by Nick Wheeler I have subjected blades to up to 15 normalizings before quenching, and it in my opinion has improved the performance of my stock removal 1084 blades. I am interested to hear what you guys think about this.
Kyle Fuglesten
 
Hi Kile, Glad for your interest in this thread.

My proposed experiment was inteneded to have the only variable be forging vs. stock removal. And the affect # of hardening cycles on both. All other variables would be conotrolled to the extent humanly possible. It is hard to illustrate this in this forum, but I attempted to be as specific as I could.

With regard to your mention of just smacking the steel a bit...
The very reason the I do not use quarter inch bar stock is because I do not believe that there is the same opportuntiy to refine the grain structure using low temperature forging, as their is when you use larger stock. In my case I use inch and an eighth round stock. This give sme a chance to further refine the grain, and take advantage of
thermal cycling as I forge and after.IN the case of larger stock the percentage of reduction is much greater. So, the combination of all these ingredients pushes the steel farther than using a single, cure all method. If you get great results with your method then I would say that's great! ANd I would encourage you to keep experimenting until you have gotten the optimum results possible for 1084.

In my expereince forging thin stock at the high temps suggested by popular methods is a great chance at failure. I have never had a blade warp or break when forged at low temp from large stock. Adversely, I have had numerous failures with thin stock.

In the experiment I am simply trying to prove to myself that there is a bebefit. As far as futher experimentation, I am testing multiple random normaliztions, allotrpic transformation, and a number of other things in my shop.

Keep me informed as to your testing. Great to hear some more opinions.

shane
 
Kyle; Thermal cycles can improve steel, but not to the extent when they are in conjuction with forging. I have never had a blade from smaller stock out cut a blade forged from larger stock. When forged correctly forging with a hammer always products greater potential in the blade, I don't know where the limits are, the 5 1/2 stock we are using now is a wonder to work with. We do have more experiments planned to examine the limits.

I sincerely hope that Shane's work brings more information to light.
 
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