Forging a knife from a file

D

Dixieblade57

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Jun 20, 2007
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I have a few old files that have been used and abused laying around my shop and I am getting ready to fire my forge for the first time shortly. Since the doc said everything was looking better from my bain injury and I could do strenuous activity in four weeks if the next CT showed everything good. So I thought what better opportunity! Most of the files are Nicholson and they just don't cut anymore, no matter how I clean them!

A quick funny story, "I guess, it all depends on your perspective"!
My son used one of my good files on aluminum and literally plugged it slap up. I got on to him about using my good files on aluminum so he took it on his own to unplug while I was gone one day. When I saw it again it was trying to rust, except for the clumps of aluminum still pluggin some of it! When I asked him about the file, he told me he had heated it red hot with a torch and then brushed some of the aluminum out of it. Then when it wouldn't all come out he heated and plunged into a bucket of water, thinking that would pop the remaining aluminum from the teeth of the file. Now I know where the rust came from, Huh! Can we all say annealed!:eek:


The questions or questions I need to ask is after forging are as follows:

1. Do I need to normalize X3 for a file?

2. What temp to heat treat for a file?

3. Appropriate quench mediun for a file?

4. Temper time and temperature for a file?

5. Anything I am missing or not thinking of?


Would appreciate any help along these lines.
 
I'll bite. I'm no expert, but I have made probably 20 or so file knives. I generally normalize twice, but three wouldn't hurt. This step refines the grain and evens it out, if you had an uneven anneal. I don't have good temp control, but I generally take it to nonmagnetic and soak it for a few minutes, then quench in warm mineral oil. I temper two one hour cycles at 450. 400 and 425 still leave an edge that chips. Could go to 500 w/o ill effects, IMO. Nicholson is reported to have said to treat their files as if they were 1095. If that is in fact the case, then my way leaves some hardness on the table.
 
Assuming the file hasn't cracked or been otherwise damaged from the aforementioned "heat treat", AND, going against the better judgement of the crowd; I would definitely normalize at least 2x, Heat to 1525 - 1550F, soak for 3 -5 minutes and quench in 130 Degree F Canola oil. Temper at 350 first, check edge, if it chips raise temperature 50 degrees, repeat for 2 to 3 cycles at least an hour long.
 
I am always gun-shy when giving advice about heat-treating, SOOOOOO, I'll just tell you how I do mine. By the way, I have made many, many blades from Nicholson files.

This starts AFTER forging and preliminary grinding.

1. Normalize 3 times - let cool to black between heats

2. Heat Oil (I use Vet Grade Mineral Oil on these) to about 130 degrees

3. Bring the blade to 1450 degrees and hold for 3-5 minutes (I use a Don Fogg style upright blown forge with thermocouple and digital read-out)

4. Quench in pre-heated oil

5. One temper at 415 degrees for two hours

6. Finish grinding (slowly)

7. One more temper at 415 degrees for two hours

8. Finish the blade by hand (many, many hours:D)

Remember, this is not meant as advice, its just how I do things.

Robert
 
Dixie, email me. If a file knife doesn't chip at a temper below 425, then it did not get hard enough in quench. Nicholson files are not 1095. They may be W-1, but they are more forgiving than 1095. I have made probably over a hundred of file knives, and have never had a problem as long as they were Nicholsons. They make excellent blades.
 
I haven't made a hunded but I have made quite a few from Nicholson files with good results. I also made a couple from Simonds files. I think the metal used in both is the same although that is just a guess.
 
LRB said:
Nicholson files are not 1095. They may be W-1, but they are more forgiving than 1095.
Click to expand...

That's why I said "reported to have said." All I know is that some of my best edge holding blades have been produced using the method I described. I don't have testing tools, but I've been able to produce a knife that meets my expectations.
 
Another possibility, but I don't know enough about metallurgy to say, could it be Nicholson has more manganese added to their steel which may be 1095, or even a touch of vanadium. I called them back in the ninties, and asked what steel they used. The woman that answered said they are not allowed to give that info out, but said it is the same steel they used in the 1860's. Was vanadium used that far back? Was manganese even used then? I have just always felt, through making blades from them, that they were more forgiving than 1095. I just ground them out after a quick anneal with a torch. Since I did not slow anneal them, could it be that the very fine grain in them, made them easier to HT? Kevin? Mete' ?
 
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