Forging by Kamis

[spiraltwista]

There have been questions of a simple charcoal forge getting hot enough to weld. They do, and easily. Charcoal is the fuel that was used by all metal working cultures until 200 years ago, and it is still used throughout the 3rd world. Pine charcoal is the fuel that the Japanese smiths used for smelting their iron and forging their blades. Charcoal burning forges and foundries were so prominent that they were responsible for a large portion of deforestation in the eastern usa, before the homesteaders even got a chance to cut down a tree.

All very true Steve theoreticaly.

But its not true about the forges currently used in Nepal kukri houses.

If they wanted to upgrade them they could , but then they would probably need different buildings to house them? & less forges working at one time?


Spiral

 

[spiraltwista]

Here's a question for the ages:

I have khukuries from several sources: HI, a few Toras, one Windlass, a few antiques, a few from Sgt. Khadka. As I've said in the past I've noted considerable difference in how they etch, both in the process itself and how they look afterwards; the speed of the etch, color of the resultant oxides, and even the smell of the process (and the steel itself) are quite different between the manufacturers and sometimes within a single manufacturer. I would go so far as to say that I could tell a 2004-2005 vintage HI* from the others -- and might be able to tell a Khadka from a Tora -- based upon smell alone, never mind the other cues. Bear in mind that the smell that I'm referring to is after the degreasing process but before the actual etching, although the etching itself increases the odor quite a bit.

Is this a function of the alloy used, the heat treatment protocol, or both? Or something else?

And another question...is it normal to be wondering about how steel smells?

*My last few HI's from this year smell differently.

I find this fascinating Dave, & notice differences is steel from differenrt countries & times. I have a sham wootz knife that smells of fish when cleaned or etched.

Blades from the Royal Afghan Arsenal I can recognise on the steels color & grain.

The smell must be gases? so I guess its the alloys that get dissolved in the etch., but thats just a guess I hope someone knows the definative answear.

O for decent spetrographic analysis of blades.

Spiral

 

[Howard Wallace]

Darn, Spiral. I wish I knew a little Yoga.

There are other forges than the material ones. You have to seek them out though.

For what it's worth, I have an 18" AK by, I think, Shanker. I noticed a black inclusion or fold of some sort on the side of the blade. I asked Bill about it, and even posted on something about it in the HI forum at the time. The general agreement was that they were artifacts of the forging process, and were only cosmetic. I figured mine was mostly cosmetic as well, but, alas, it turned out to be structural as well. The chunk of missing blade is right where the inclusion was.

That could, of course, be returned to Yangdu. In Nepal it would probably be reground into a thinner khukuri. That's another option. I wonder if the chip went past the hardened area. If so, it would either need to be rehardened or one would have to live with a softer steel.

Spring steel is generally of high quality. That's why it makes good stock for khukuris. Steel with cracks in it does not make good springs. However, there may be some. We live in an imperfect world, and even our treasured chunks of steel are destined to fail sometime. I'll stay with the hand-forged khukuris from springs, as I know them well by now. To be aware of the potential for failure is good. Perhaps even better than the guy with a wondersteel he thinks will never fail.

The institution of a proof testing program at HI, if it occurs, will help eliminate a large percentage of flawed steel that would otherwise get through. Not everything though. There could always be the flaw that just takes one more hard blow to manifest. That will be very rare though. My guess is that good proof testing will catch 99% of the hidden flaws.

 

[Josh Feltman]

Howard, I wasn't posting it to get an exchange or anything, just to add another data point to the discussion. I've gotten my money's worth and then some from HI--didn't really feel right to return it even though I know I could.

 

[spiraltwista]

There are other forges than the material ones. You have to seek them out though.


The institution of a proof testing program at HI, if it occurs, will help eliminate a large percentage of flawed steel that would otherwise get through. Not everything though. There could always be the flaw that just takes one more hard blow to manifest. That will be very rare though. My guess is that good proof testing will catch 99% of the hidden flaws.

I like Both those statements, Howard. :thumbup:

Spiral

 

[munk]

Originally Posted by Howard Wallace
There are other forges than the material ones. You have to seek them out though

I've missed posts like this in the Cantina.
I see these things one seeks though, as a way to make good on the forging you've already survived.


munk

 

[Berkley]

And another question...is it normal to be wondering about how steel smells?

Normal for the general population ... definitely not; probably enough to warrant at least a security check, if not a strait jacket. Normal for the people who frequent this forum ... seems like a reasonable and interesting line of inquiry to me.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Normal for the general population ... definitely not; probably enough to warrant at least a security check, if not a strait jacket. Normal for the people who frequent this forum ... seems like a reasonable and interesting line of inquiry to me.

- Craziness is defined by abnormal behavior. Sanity is defined by normal behavior.
- Everyone is crazy.

Therefore, I'm sane...and I can prove it.

 

[munk]

I notice metal smell too. Men do; they are aware of smells. It's linked to sexual awareness, though I've spared you any cheap Freudian jokes....as long as there was no other physiological response, I think you quite sane.


I wish Firkin would see this and weigh in. With his background, he might have a theory as to why the steels are smelling different. I mean, it's all spring steel, so it has more in common than not. Something, magnanese, (sic) something in there in higher or lower proportion is doing this.

Anyone ever noticed that metal spoons can sometimes smell like rotten eggs?


munk

 

[Howard Wallace]

Howard, I wasn't posting it to get an exchange or anything, just to add another data point to the discussion. I've gotten my money's worth and then some from HI--didn't really feel right to return it even though I know I could.

Josh, I figured you knew your way around enough to know you could get a refund if you asked. Mainly what I was trying to point out is the opportunity to put it into usable condition again. In Nepal it is not unusual to see khukuris that have been used hard and about worn out. Few of us use them that hard, just because of our lifestyles. You have an opprotunity to grind that one down to a thinner khuk, and if anyone asks you the model you could say "Well it started out as a (whatever) but I've used it pretty hard since then and it's a lot thinner now. You can't buy one like this."