Forging Cable Damascus

fdh54turkeyshooter

fdh54turkeyshooter

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Nov 2, 2007
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I built and Indian George Forge. Now I want to try making some cable Damascus. How do I clean it, to get the sticky coating off before I start, and any pointers so my next attempt will not come out looking like a burnt broom!?Thanks in advance. Fred:confused:
 
Stick it in the forge to burn most of the crap off then flux, heat, brush, flux heat etc till its clean
 
I read about one process at the Salamander Armory web site yesterday.......see if that helps you.
 
In between fluxing, give it a smart whack or 3 on yer anvil. Helps knock some of the crap outta the center.
 
I start all my students with welding cable. Cut off a piece 4" to 6" weld a handle on one end and weld the other end too. If you do not have a welder warp it tightly with wire.
Once in the forge,when it is heating up, you wire brush the hell out of it and apply Borax, you do this a number of times until you got it up to welding temp.
Once at welding temp you start tapping it following the strands. I like to start hitting it from the handle end and work forward.
The majority of my student will mess up the first billet, so make up a few before you start.;)
Good Luck.:thumbup:
 
B.V. said:
I read about one process at the Salamander Armory web site yesterday.......see if that helps you.
Click to expand...

Hello!!

Yeah the good Dr knows his stuff..I spent a while over at hisd place here in Henderson last week..he makes it look way too easy. He said cable almost welds itself and from what I have seen him do it sure looks that way.

He did say you have to get the right cable..no galvanized..he was emphatic about that. He also said it doesn't matter much whether it has a fiber core or not, just take it out, slap the outter strands together and weld away. I know he uses a bottom swage to help hold things together when he welds it..

Jason
 
jason x said:
He did say you have to get the right cable..no galvanized..he was emphatic about that.
Click to expand...

That's because it can kill you. It bears repeating every time it comes up. Heating galvanised steel in a forge is BAD.

With that said, follow IGs advice above. I personally don't recommend starting with cable (a simple faggot weld is much simpler), but a lot of folks do it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

-d
 
I have been dry welding the cable inside a section of stainless steel tubing with good success.
I weld a bolt that will fit inside the tube, to one end of the cable, run the cable inside the tube, cut the tube off and weld the cable inside the end you just cut off. Weld the cable to the inside of the tube. Weld a cap on this end. Clamp it in a vise, twist the nut and the cable will tighten up. Weld the nut to the stainless tube and add a handle.
The ones I did were done with a press.
Three heats and its done. Three times in the press. The cable is absolutely straight and intact on its surface and with a 100 % weld.

Fred
 
Thanks for all the help guys. One more question. What color am I looking for in the forge to know that I am up to welding heat? How long should it take to get there? I know there will be some variables depending on the size of the forge. I built mine to Indian George specs.
 
Two good ways to judge welding heat:
1) Borax flux is vigorously bubbling (boiling). This is the lower end of the welding range, approx 1900F. Observe your color here, then take a shade or so lighter.
2) Straighten a coat hanger, then bend about a half inch or so of the end at 90 degrees. Keep touching this to the heating billet. When it starts to want to stick when contacted, you are at welding heat.

Temp color is very much dependent on the amount of light you are working in and perception varies from individual to individual. Generally, welding temps are very bright, up in the yellow to yellow-white range. 2200-2300F is a good welding temp.
 
Thanks, Mike it took only a few minutes to get a bright orange, but I didn't reach the yellow or yellow-white. It is outside in the daylight. I shut it down until I had a few answers, so not to waste the propane. Do you think it is just a matter of time to go from the bright orange to yellow-white, or do you think I need to adjust the air/fuel mixture?
 
Outside, in bright daylight, colors will appear darker than they are inside or even in the shade. That's part of the reason the old blacksmith worked in the shade of the tree... better temp sense.

Your workpiece should become the same color as the interior of your forge. Thus, you can watch the color of your lining as you learn to adjust the temp.

You will need to experiment with your air/fuel mix for your forge and understand how it affects temp. One thing you need to do is maintain a proper atmosphere for forging. You want a neutral-to-reducing flame, not oxidizing. This means that you have essentially an excess of propane that will want to burn as it exits the forge from finding more oxygen from the outside air. For this reason, one should have tongues of orange flame licking out of the front of the forge 3-6".

Now, maintaining a reducing atmosphere, play with your air/fuel mix and see what gets hotter or cooler. You will find quite a bit of interplay between the air throttle and gas pressure. If you can get it to a bright yellow out in daylight, you are probably plenty hot enough.

Use those two tips I mentioned for gauging temp. Vigorously bubbling borax is an excellent welding temp. You can use 20 Mule Team Borax from the grocery (NOT Boraxo...that's soap!). Later, you can choose to purchase or make anhydrous borax. Many people do that because they don't like the tendency of 20 MT to fluff up as the water in it boils off.

Added: forgot to answer one question. It takes my kaowool-lined forge about 15 minutes to reach full heat. You need to run it long enough to reach steady state, then make an adjustment, wait 5 minutes or so, and so on.
 
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When welding any billet or cable, let it get heated all the way through. The center needs to be the same temp as the outside for the weld to take all the way through. This is the number one reason for weld failures showing up in a billet as you grind it.
Using a coat hanger (mild steel wire) to find the "stick" point is the simplest way to know it is just about right.
Stacy
 
You can weld the interior by fluxing it, taking a welding heat, clamping one end in a vice and grabbing the other with a wrench (or whatever),... and twisting the heck out of it! It will squeeze all the flux and crap out, like wringing out a wet rag. Do that a couple 2-3 times until it welds up from the inside and then start beating it over the anvil. It will also help if you weld the ends solid first with a torch, arc welder or forge weld so you have something solid to grab on to. You can trim the ends off after it welds up.... "Twist weld" it!

I think minimal forging shows the best pattern. The more you forge (or fold) it the more it stretches the pattern out and loses the detail and character of the cable.
 
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