Forging questions

Y

YuriM

Joined
Jul 30, 2004
Messages
169
Hi,

I'm trying to get started in blacksmithing, and I had a couple of basic questions.

First, it seems like lots of you work with round stock. What I was wondering is: what size stock do you start with? I understand that during bladesmithing, steel can be worked much more flexibly than with stock removal, but if I want to get a knife X" inches long, and Y" thick, how much Z"-diameter stock should I start with? Are there problems/difficulties working bar stock? Or is it just a matter of what you can get ahold of most cheaply?

I was also curious if there are any good books or online tutorials you would recommend? (Or both... I like books because they usually contain more detail, but I know that this is far from the rule, and online tutorials can be really top-notch, especially where the online knife-making community is involved)

Thanks for your help!

Yuri
 
Hi Yuri.
Welcome to the world of forging!:thumbup: I would suggest, as a place to start, going and getting a copy of Wayne Goddard's book "The $50 Knife Shop". You may or may not be able to assemble all of the necessary accoutrements for making knives for $50, but the book is absolutely fantastic. It does a great job of covering different aspects of getting/making equipment on the cheap. The technical information that he covers is also very good - simple, straightforward, and to-the-point. Very easy to understand. I've been forging for 6 years, and I still refer to that book from time to time. Also, go ahead and get a copy of "How to Make Knives" by Richard Barney and Bob Loveless. It's also a very good book with a lot of useful information that a beginner might need or want. In regards to internet sources, you really need to check out Tim Lively's site and Tai Goo's site and look at what some of the Neo-Tribal makers are doing, and how they do it. Very good information to be had there! (some really fine knives, too:D) As far as round vs. bar stock, for me it was really a matter of what I could get when I first started. Now I work mainly with bar stock, but that's only because it's what I've gotten used to, and what I have available, but I like round stock just fine. For me, I've always felt that bar is easier to work with, but I'm sure other makers with more experience than I have would disagree. The very first steel I forged was railroad spikes - tons of them! I liked (and still do) the novelty of railroad spike knives, and let's face it, they are (usually) free. If you're going to use them to practice with, just make sure you obtain them legally.:D I mention them only because I feel that they are a great material to practice on because they are usually readily available, and a cheaper alternative to bar or round stock. Just be aware that if you want to make a truly "high quality" knife, you should use a known variety of "knifemakin' " steel (1080/1084, 5160, 1075, etc...). As far as what starting size of bar or round to start with, I don't know of a "formula",as such, for calculating finished size, but maybe another more experienced maker would. I seem to remember seeing a sort of tutorial on Tai Goo's website that showed a piece of round stock before forging, and the finished knife after it was forged down, so you might check that out to get an idea. Good luck with your forgings!
 
I had a similar question just this week. I sent an answer to the young man I gave a lesson to, and most of it will help anyone getting started. Here is an expert:


"..........It was nice having you and your mother over Saturday. I am sure we will get together again soon. In the mean time, I will give you some links to sites with a lot of information.

First, Bladeforums, www.bladeforums . It has sub-forums on wilderness survival, factory knives,scouting, ........and the best advise available from the pros and other folks. Wayne Goddard, Kevin Cashen, Ed Fowler, Bruce Bump, and the list goes on.
"Shop Talk "is where I hang out http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=741, I am Bladsmth.
To search the forums for information use this search engine, http://www.google.com/coop/cse?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Here are some links to sites with lots of information and tutorials.
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/instructionallinks.htm
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/multipletutorials.htm
http://gbrannon.bizhat.com/old.htmhttp://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html
http://www.knifenetwork.com/workshop/index.shtml
http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372833&highlight=60-minute&

File work and other info from Bruce Evans:
http://beknivessite2.homestead.com/guard.html

These are on quenching and eutectoid/hyper-eutectoid steel. It may make your head hurt, but reading it will give you a lot of real good information.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=639019
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615784
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=615086


That should keep you busy for a while.
Take care,
Stacy..............................."

As to round stock, it creates the basic shape fairly easily, and is fun to work. A guide to drawing out round without doing extreme manipulation is 1/2" round = 1-1.25 wide blade; 3/4" round = 1.25-1.5"; and 1" round = 1.5-2".

To calculate it by formula, compare the volume of a foot of round stock to a foot of flat stock. In forging, you will probably be able to get most of that volume easily moved around from round to flat. Forging in the tapers is easier for some folks when using round stock. They just forge the round down into a tapered cone, and then draw it out into a blade. The tapers ( both distal and on the flat) will sort of come out automatically.


I use mostly flat stock, because it is readily available, but enjoy forging out round stock. With a press or power hammer, many smiths use very large round stock to make their blades from. A 1/2" slice of 3" round can make several big knives.

Stacy
 
Thanks! That stuff will take me a while to get through! Thanks also for explaining about stock. I've been thinking about practicing on RR spikes, as I have lots of those lying around (I don't know where they came from... that makes them legal, right? :D)
 
You can use a piece of modeling clay to practice on over the anvil, (molded to whatever dimension stock you have in mind) to see how much mass or volume you need, what hammers, techniques etc., you will need to draw it out to it's finished form.
 
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++++1 on what Tai said.

You can figure out a lot regarding mass and volume very practically with modeling clay. There's no need to do "calculass" and mathematical manipulatives, although that can be kind of cool too. Save that for later maybe. Just use your hands and eyes. It's the kind of training most of us need these days. It's good for body and soul to shut the wet computer off sometimes. We use the bugga way too much in my opinion.

Let other aspects of mind come forward. Eyeball your round stock. Form a piece of clay to the same dimensions. Do it by hand. Do it by eye, not by ruler/calipers (that's the wet computer wanting to be in charge). Now shape out the blade and tang (maybe just with your hands first) from the clay stock you formed. How much of the clay did it take? That's how long a piece of steel you'll need. Forging the clay with hammer takes it a step further. You can even just use a piece of 2x4 for your anvil and do it in your living room.

Make sure to have lots of fun. I kid you knot/not! It can go a long way to helping this kind of mind experience become visceral...not nervous system orientated!

Wow, even invoking the name, Tai, can get you on a soap box! :p
 
I like that idea! I was wondering about a material I could practice on cheaply

I'm just back from firing up the forge for the first time and beating up on a few RR spikes just to get "the feel" for things. Forging's thirsty work! But immensely satisfying :)
 
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