forging steel

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pike3e

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Sep 28, 2008
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I need some advice. I picked up a 167 pound anvil and a hand crank forge from a moving sale this week. I have never forged anything before but make stock removal knives from d2 and o1. What should I get for steel to start forging knives with and what form (barstock, rod, ect) should I purchase and what size? I am planning on making hunter sized knives. I did go down to the railroad tracks and picked up a few railroad spikes to beat on until I get some real steel.


Thanks

John
 
I have read many threads on this topic, and I definately agree, that the best steel for us begginers is 1080 or 1084. You can find it in the "for sale" section. 5160 is also recommended by some. Good luck and get after it!!

Brad
 
Aldos 3/16 x 1" (I think, tell him the smaller stick) of 1084 is easy to beat (I was going to say hard to beat but don't think that'd be a correct description of the product). 1084 forges easy, can get good results with a simple heat treat and Aldo's 1084 is clean. Barstock is easier to learn on because unless you're doing an integral, you still have forge the round down to a bar anyways..... unless you just like beating on hot steel. :p

Have fun with the RR spikes :D they're hard to hold on to, most guys I know that forge them on a regular basis have made or bought special spike tongs.

Welcome to the forging sickness :)
 
I suggest round stock instead of flat bar. You don't learn much from pounding on a flat piece of steel; other than it used to be flat.:D

Truly; changing the shape, of a 3/4" square or round section of steel, into a knife, takes some skill. I mean, it takes skill to make a knife from a flat bar, it takes a bit more to make the same knife by forging methods.
It also takes steam, using a three pound hammer.:eek: builds muscle as well as endurance.

Change the shape of 50 of those rxr spikes into knives and you will absorb a great deal of valuable knowledge, about forging.

Hold your hammer more towards the end than the head, you let the hammer do the work if you do.

Learn about the forge, you purchased, burning up the rxr spikes. Weld them to a piece of re bar.

If you get the bug, buy a power hammer, there great.:thumbup:

Good luck with your new toys, Fred
 
stick with 5/8" -11/16" - 3/4" round bar, for hunter sized knives. Aldo has good 1084. locally you can look up Fastenal and pick up W1 It's cheap and plentiful and makes a great blade. read the stickies and older posts on W1, Water / Brine Quenching if you do lots of stuff you need to know! here's a hint though before I beat the round into flat I'll draw the point end into a cone shape (think shaprened Pencil shape) then beat it flat that way your point is already shaped.;)

Jason
 
Jason that's a neat idea that I'll have to try next time I forge some round bar.

Fred.... 50 RR spike knives???? :eek: That makes me want to cry just thinking about it. You'll have some guns after that. Yeah welding a handle on makes it a lot easier..... The first few RR knives I made I probably spent 75% of the time ducking and then finding the RR spike after it flew out of my very bad tongs :p
 
Will Leavitt said:
Fred.... 50 RR spike knives???? :eek: That makes me want to cry just thinking about it. You'll have some guns after that. Yeah welding a handle on makes it a lot easier..... The first few RR knives I made I probably spent 75% of the time ducking and then finding the RR spike after it flew out of my very bad tongs :p
Click to expand...

YOU TOO? I still do the duck and find dance atleast 2-3x per hour :eek: :o

Jason
 
Ohhhhh those pesky RR spikes....Nothing like cherrying one up in the forge and smaking it on the anvil only to find a puddle pocket in one and watching those darn fireballs fly in every direction! Make sure you use only the best borax and keep it dry!
 
Wolfjohn said:
Ohhhhh those pesky RR spikes....Nothing like cherrying one up in the forge and smaking it on the anvil only to find a puddle pocket in one and watching those darn fireballs fly in every direction! Make sure you use only the best borax and keep it dry!
Click to expand...

Just out of cuiosity-
I plan on assembling the tools to start forging in the near future and I have a bunch of hc spikes to practice with before I get a hold of Aldo. For those of you that are space-constrained, how much clearance do you have around your anvil?
 
Will Leavitt said:
Jason that's a neat idea that I'll have to try next time I forge some round bar.

Fred.... 50 RR spike knives???? :eek: That makes me want to cry just thinking about it. You'll have some guns after that. Yeah welding a handle on makes it a lot easier..... The first few RR knives I made I probably spent 75% of the time ducking and then finding the RR spike after it flew out of my very bad tongs :p
Click to expand...

I still have some spikes stuck in the walls around here.:D They are nasty projectiles, when they get loose.:eek:
 
mtredmon said:
Just out of cuiosity-
I plan on assembling the tools to start forging in the near future and I have a bunch of hc spikes to practice with before I get a hold of Aldo. For those of you that are space-constrained, how much clearance do you have around your anvil?
Click to expand...


Hmmm I have my anvil basicaly at the 9 o'clock position if my forge is considered 12 o'clock. I don't have to step to forge, remember if you have to move you're losing heat. You need to have a CLEAR area to run and duck... Big consideration is the heat plume coming off of the TOP of the forge, I keep mine about 10' from the eaves of the house. If you're running a solid fuel forge you need room for clinkers and stuff, if you're running a gas forge I dunno what I'd consider ample room... I forge in the driveway. My smithy we're building is going to be about 12'x16' or so with a 10 or 12' roof height.
 
I agree with Will, keep your anvil close, I figure you get at most about 15-17 seconds of pound time until your steel cools...then you're just beating your arms off for nothing. Be sure you heat your anvil up too before you start striking (not cherry hot!) - just get it to where your cold anvil doesn't draw the heat out of your work. If you're going to use a coal forge, learn the basics of it carefully, it matters a lot on the depth to put your work in the coals too. Coal forges are ok but, I found out that since I didn't have a young kid apprentice to prep my forge like the old days and by the time I cranked long enough and got my fire ready, it was time for a coffee break, then a good western would come on TV and then I'd need a nap and...uhh...yeah, go with a gas forge as soon as you can.

Pay close attention to the How To post on here, there's some really good talent on here and they're more than willing to help you. I reccomend Anvil Fire as a good source too for info and if you can, join a local club or ABANA and make it to some "Hammer In's" if you can, I love them!
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I suggest round stock instead of flat bar. You don't learn much from pounding on a flat piece of steel; other than it used to be flat.:D

Truly; changing the shape, of a 3/4" square or round section of steel, into a knife, takes some skill. I mean, it takes skill to make a knife from a flat bar, it takes a bit more to make the same knife by forging methods.
It also takes steam, using a three pound hammer.:eek: builds muscle as well as endurance.

Change the shape of 50 of those rxr spikes into knives and you will absorb a great deal of valuable knowledge, about forging.

Hold your hammer more towards the end than the head, you let the hammer do the work if you do.

Learn about the forge, you purchased, burning up the rxr spikes. Weld them to a piece of re bar.

If you get the bug, buy a power hammer, there great.:thumbup:

Good luck with your new toys, Fred
Click to expand...

Let me add one thing about going with a power hammer here. If you find yourself with a Little Giant someday, do yourself a favor and run some small stout aircraft cable thru your hammer springs and tie them off someplace secure on the hammer. I witnessed a spring "Fling" off a 50 pound trip hammer once and it shot off that darn thing like torpedo and had anyone been in its path, that would have been a bad outcome. By the next day, I had "my" springs harnessed just in case. Remember, machines are just machines, anything can fail or happen, just stay focused around them. And keep your steel you're going to be hammering going in to the dies as flat as you can or you'll take a ride!! You guys with hammers know what I mean too!! HA HA!
 
Not to let WolfJohns post get you discouraged, even though the warning was well said and noted;



I feel I have to add; moving from a 3 pound hand held hammer, that you have given a name and that you have come to know well over the previous two years, to a 100 lbs of air driven metal mashing destruction, which I have, is an experience that can make a grown man weep. I did:o.

Your arm gets all tingly and such:)

I love Big Blue.:)

Fred
 
And if you're untrained or careless it can make a grown man ask for help opening bottles and tying his shoes for a bit. :p
 
Fred.Rowe said:
That sounds like personal experience speaking.

Fred
Click to expand...

Almost.... sometimes when someone demonstrates something and you THINK you got it, you might want to take a deep breath, check your ego and find out if you really understand it by telling him the process as you THINK you understand it. I almost got sucked into a hammer at another smith's shop. I sat down and smoked a couple of cigarettes before going back near it. I've seen and treated enough trauma in the Army to know what could have happened.
 
Hmmmm..... I'm leaning more on Will's advice here.

Flat bar is the easiest way to transition to forging a blade. Good practice for understanding how hot metal moves, is to get a piece of square stock, mild steel. Forge it round, then forge it back to square, and so on, until it's too small to hammer on anymore. That will teach you VOLUMES about how to move hot metal. Thanks to Ed Caffrey for getting me to do that! :)

If you start making a blade from barstock, you just keep in mind that you need to stay off of the ricasso and constantly use it as your foundation from which all the tapers and bevels are based off of, then you always have a starting point. If you start with round stock... what is your starting point?

I recommend you start with your hand choked WAY UP on the hammer near the head. That will give you more control. As you start to understand what you're doing, you can move your hand down to increase your strike.

If you start with your hand on the end of the handle, you're going to have a big swing that you don't know how to control. So says me. :)


One of the biggest things here, is understanding what hammer faces do what. A round face moves metal out equally in 360 degrees, a square face keeps it moving out more at 0, 90, 180, and 270 degree marks. A pein will move it out a lot from the front and back of the pein, yet very little away from the sides.

Just my $0.02 :)
 
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