Forging vs Stock Removal

JTknives said:
I think there is a misconception out there on carbon steel. It seams like a lot of people think carbon steel blades are rust bombs
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Bombs? no

But taking your knife out of a sheath to find some pitting or corrosion on a beautiful blade can ruin a day.
 
Most of my first blades I made from carbon steels have been given back to me, and I've replaced them with stainless, because of rusting. I'm not sure most people are capable of taking care of a high carbon knife. Just my opinion. Maybe I'm just making knives for dumbasses, but mostly end up in the hands of a laymen chopping tomatoes and peppers.
 
The few kitchen knives I have made for my wife are A2 and thy get a patina but no rust. But she will gently wash them after using and hand dry. I think we are in and have been in a generation of lazy. Think about the chef knives of the days gone past. Big carbon steel blades with a nice dark dark patina. We are in an age of toss it in the dishwasher or leave it in the sink with water (had a friend do that and wonder why his 15n20 blade was black). Think about that picket knife your gramps carried.

like I said generation of lazy. Don’t get me wrong I love stainless just as much as the next guy. I just think carbon steel gets a bad wrap from lazy or ignorant people. Now in areas with super high humidity or salt in the air, yeah stainless is almost a must.
 
Yeah, JT, I agree but even somebody who cares for a high carbon steel knife properly... Can slip up and whammo rust or patina.

I've learned the hard way that most people today just prefer the lesser amount of maintenance involved with stainless.

Especially kitchen knives. Stainless from a maker's point of view is almost an insurance policy. My Mom and Mother-in-law taught me that:rolleyes:

Cuts lemons with 15n20. Doesn't wash right away. Terrified of the color change:rolleyes: refuses to use knife againo_O even after I told them what they should do!
 
I once read a story of a knifemaker getting a beautiful hamon on a kitchen knife and gave it as a present to his parents.

Upon asking them later how they liked the knife was "Oh we love it, but we had to scrub it a lot to remove the stain on the blade"
 
Guys you are knife makers and you will make knives in steel which customer demand not what you like .I run auto service , my personal choice is Maserati .............but i work on thousand different model on automobiles ..... some of them i don t like but i have several expensive hobby and I will fix anything with wheels .....destiny :(
 
kuraki said:
No actually, I won't.

I work a normal job so I don't have to make anything I don't want to, from anything I don't want to, for anyone I don't want to.
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Whatever, I do what I want! :):thumbsup: (p.s. the MURICA bowie ya made is still one of the coolest knives I've ever seen)

No customs, no customer requests, I don't need their money, and I don't need the headaches. If OP needs the additional income, then obviously that's a consideration for him but not one of my considerations...
 
JTknives said:
I think there is a misconception out there on carbon steel. It seams like a lot of people think carbon steel blades are rust bombs just waiting to explode. In all reality carbon steel does not require that much care. It really only requires about the same amount of care you should give any blade. Clean and wipe it down after use. My daily carry is a spiderco farid in cpm10v and I have owned it since it was released. It’s been clipped in my pocket every day since. For 3 years I ran a boiler and kilns at a lumber mill. Used it there to open 2-3 bags of salt every day for the water softeners. There is not a spot of rust or tarnish on the blade. You can see a few light stain marks up under where it pivots but nothing major. I would not trade this blade for any blade currently made. I don’t wash it but very rarely with some ethanol and a rag. Mostly I wipe it on my pants or a quick scrub with my shirt. If my wife gets ahold of it I will find all kinds of tape sticky on I from breaking down boxes. She loves the blade for cardboard. The steel is amazing and the knife is heavily used but only gets sharpened about twice a year. There is nothing I would change about it. Yeah sure stainless is nice for a few things but I’m generally happy with a good solid carbon steel alloy. Remember stainless steel is just carbon steel that’s hiding behind a thin layer of chromium oxide.
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Isn't 10V pretty high in Cr? I think if you did that with 1075 it might be in a different condition!

Natlek said:
Guys you are knife makers and you will make knives in steel which customer demand not what you like .I run auto service , my personal choice is Maserati .............but i work on thousand different model on automobiles ..... some of them i don t like but i have several expensive hobby and I will fix anything with wheels .....destiny :(
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Nope. If someone asks me to make a giant copper in in 4V at 65Rc I'm not going to do it. Or if someone wants a dive knife in 1075 I wouldn't do that either.
 
I have be carrying knives out of CPM M4 for at least 10 years and the only time I had rust was swimming in the ocean and leaving it in my pocket and it still wiped of like JT said. I think tool steels are under rated since they often have enough Cr and Mo to offer enough rust protection for most use. I made a test M2 chef knife and intentionally left it dirty and in the sink over night after cutting onions and lemons and it took 2 weeks before I started to get a hint of patina. The performance gained is well worth it.
 
Marc Cooper said:
I think the thing that drives the demand in my area is the environment.

Newfoundland is a very salty place. We have very rough seas and rocky coastlines. That makes for serious salt disbursement, even inland. Couple that with humidity, rain, fog and snow, and everything rusts here. You can't even find a vehicle over 2-3 years old without significant rust. It's crazy.
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Carbon Steels or Stainless Steels?———-And I thought it was Salty here! :eek:——— I live right by the Ocean and when I started making knives I bought some bar of 1084 & O1 and I could literally watch the knives start to rust working on them in the garage overnight from the salt air blowing down the alley.. I’ve been a devoted “Lab” Steel man:pfor some 23 years now. Especially with making Culinary Cutlery. People don’t know how to take care of much of anything anymore! With Knives in that top 1% of anything!:D
 
I use a Spyderco Gayle Bradley (first generation) in cpm-M4 as one of my edc (I usually use two blades, one small fixed blade in a tough steel, and a folder, for slicing) and no rust whatsoever, and I live in the south of Portugal, near the sea. Mentioning that, only knife (axe) that got a bit of rust was one made in 4340 that I left outside of the house one night or two (there’s lots of humidity at night, here, in winter). That one and some of my garden tools have some rust, but because I left them at night outside the house and didn’t clean it in the morning. So carbon steels for me all day long!

I forgot to mention that once I had an Elmax blade (custom) getting some pitting! No more stainless (only exception would be an AEB-L blade made with Devin Thomas or Larrin exact recommendations, regarding heat treatment) for me.
 
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Fallbrook Forge said:
Isn't 10V pretty high in Cr? I think if you did that with 1075 it might be in a different condition!


Nope. If someone asks me to make a giant copper in in 4V at 65Rc I'm not going to do it. Or if someone wants a dive knife in 1075 I wouldn't do that either.
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nope 10v is 5.25% chromium which is far below the 13+% required to be considered stainless. In low levels chromium does not contribute to rust prevention because it’s used up in the alloy to make chromium carbides. The steel can only use so much of it to make carbides and if there is any left then that is what helps. Free chromium is what converts to chromium oxide on the surface and shields the steel underneath.
 
Natlek said:
Guys you are knife makers and you will make knives in steel which customer demand not what you like
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Nerp…. If I started making what I thought people liked, I would have drawers of unsold knives that look like everyone else's. I make what I like. Forging is my favorite part of the process... simple carbon steels lend themselves well to forging. I also live in a very salty environment here in Lunenburg, Nova Scotia, and I rarely see rust on my blades. In fact, most of the fishermen I know use carbon steel for their everyday working knives and stainless, mainly for their emergency knives that, if all goes well, will never see use. That is just my observation and experience.

I think the OP should make what he likes, make it well, try to find your individuality and people will buy them.

I am starting an anti-stainless movement. Simple carbon steels eventually rust and go back to the earth, while stainless steels persist and break the natural cycle. Stainless, takes the "stain" out of "Sustainability" I have no idea how you live with yourselves!

:pRick
 
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Natlek said:
Guys you are knife makers and you will make knives in steel which customer demand not what you like .I run auto service , my personal choice is Maserati .............but i work on thousand different model on automobiles ..... some of them i don t like but i have several expensive hobby and I will fix anything with wheels .....destiny :(
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No. I've been a full-time knife maker since 1990. I use the steels & material I like. People no longer ask me for stainless blade steels. lol
 
JTknives said:
nope 10v is 5.25% chromium which is far below the 13+% required to be considered stainless. In low levels chromium does not contribute to rust prevention because it’s used up in the alloy to make chromium carbides. The steel can only use so much of it to make carbides and if there is any left then that is what helps. Free chromium is what converts to chromium oxide on the surface and shields the steel underneath.
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Right! I think I was thinking of 110v or just had numbers mixed up in my head.

Thanks!

Rick Marchand Rick Marchand do you think your etching helps prevent rust?

I've long thought that people's fear of rust on a knife is way overblown. You'd have to seriously neglect a knife for it to be ruined from rust.
 
"Etching" or any oxidizing of a carbon steels surface will help prevent rust to some extent. They're all a form of passivation.
 
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