Forging with Sam Salvati

Troop

Troop

Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
2,898
Hey Guys,
Bladesmith Sam Salvati came over to my forge today, and we forged some 1084 and O-1. It was an unbelievable learning experience for me, having Sam coaching me on proper forging methods and techniques.
I forged a Nessmuk today, (under Sam's watchful eye, of course).....................out of A2!
Yup, you heard me right, guys...A2!:cool: And you guys said it couldn't be done!;)
I heat treated it in stinky 30 wt....and it did not explode, start screaming, etc., etc. It did not warp at all. Then, I tempered it in my K-mart special toaster oven for an hour and 15 minutes at 425. And let me tell you what, that thing holds an edge like you simply would not believe! I might have gotten lucky, but, I batoned a 5" oak log, chopped thru several smaller pieces of oak, and it was still shaving hair! Not one chip or roll on the edge. I forged it from a piece of 5/16" flat stock.
I just did a real rough clean up on my "supreme" HF 1 X 30, and thru an edge on it to see how the HT went, wanting to get pictures out to you guys right away. I guess you could say that I am nothing less than "inspired" by this. The smith in the pics is Sam.
- Thanks again, Sam ...you're the best. :thumbup:
 
Why didn't he teach you how to avoid those deep pits ??? ...I told you A2 could be forged but didn't recommend it for beginners .Keep working at it !
 
nice job! but one question- If you could only oil quench, why not stick to oil hardening steels? 5160?? O-1 and 1095 are nice.
 
Keith_H said:
nice job! but one question- If you could only oil quench, why not stick to oil hardening steels? 5160?? O-1 and 1095 are nice.
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Because they said it couldn't be done. :D (I'm stubborn!)
Correction....That's right, Mete, you did say that it could be done, but not recommended for beginners. I wholeheartedly agree, however, with Sam standing over my shoulder, how could I go wrong!
 
Robert, i was SURPRISED at just how much the A2 scaled up. That one just needs a bit more grinding to bring those pits out, there was many more in it but a 80 grit flap disc on the angle grinder took em RIGHT out. A little touch on the grinder, and a nice polish and that will be super clean no more hammer marks. I have never seen a steel scale so much as the A2. Plus i think it was a bit of the gas forge causing alot of scale, i'll have to try it in my coal forge to see if it is as bad. The decarb layers and depth were interesting, thankfully everything was left thick enough so it was not a serious performance problem.


Mitch, i fell in love with that HF 1X30!!!!! It is one of the coolest little tools i have ever had the chance to use. Everybody, Mitch did a top notch job forging and rough grinding that nessmuk, it was in MUCH better shape than he thought:). Also got a GREAT look at Mitch's MASSIVE collection of very nice knives including the very awesome Sebenzas, and some Busses, as well as the 1095 nessmuck that Mitch had done with green micarta. Forged out a couple BIG wilderness ad survival style knives, a clip and drop point from A2 and O1, and Mitch forged out a nice skinner style knife from Aldo and Mace's 1084 which needs a bit of tip reshaping but other than that came out GREAT. Great time today Mitch, thanks so much, look forward to doing it again soon.
 
Troop said:
Because they said it couldn't be done. :D (I'm stubborn!)
Correction....That's right, Mete, you did say that it could be done, but not recommended for beginners. I wholeheartedly agree, however, with Sam standing over my shoulder, how could I go wrong!
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That A2 didn't stand a chance:mad:!!!!!!!!!!! Mitch YOU GOT ALOTTA GUTS!!!!!!!:thumbup:
 
You'd do a better job if you had a proper temperature controlled furnace .As a complex steel it needs precise temp and time control to get OPTIMUM performance instead of just "shaving hair" !! As an air hardening steel oil quench doesn't benefit it at all to oil quench. Either air quench or 'plate quench' !!
 
I have been gas forging A2 on and off for a while now. You have to remember to keep the flame high in a reducing environment in the forge and to stop forging while it is still hot. That being done, the A2 doesn't carburize any more that 52100 and seemingly less that 10XX.

Follow forging with normalizing and then drill and grind and use a controlled furnace to heat treat. If the proper time and temperatures are not done, you do not get the advantages of using the higher alloy steel.

I plate quench now, although I used to oil quench it as I thought the air quench allowed more scale to develop.
 
You really can't normalize A-2 as it's an air hardening steel and it will just harden on air cooling. It requires annealing after forging , let cool then heat to hardening temperature and slow cool in ashes or vermiculite.
 
Steve Hayden said:
I have been gas forging A2 on and off for a while now. You have to remember to keep the flame high in a reducing environment in the forge and to stop forging while it is still hot. That being done, the A2 doesn't carburize any more that 52100 and seemingly less that 10XX.

Follow forging with normalizing and then drill and grind and use a controlled furnace to heat treat. If the proper time and temperatures are not done, you do not get the advantages of using the higher alloy steel.

I plate quench now, although I used to oil quench it as I thought the air quench allowed more scale to develop.
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Steve, when you say to stop forging while it's still hot, do you mean while it still has color?
- Thanks!
 
mete said:
You really can't normalize A-2 as it's an air hardening steel and it will just harden on air cooling. It requires annealing after forging , let cool then heat to hardening temperature and slow cool in ashes or vermiculite.
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You caught me Robert-I heat it up to 1300°F or so and cool slowly to partially soften it up so I can drill holes with carbide tile cutters and grind with structured abrasive belts.
 
mete said:
You'd do a better job if you had a proper temperature controlled furnace .As a complex steel it needs precise temp and time control to get OPTIMUM performance instead of just "shaving hair" !! As an air hardening steel oil quench doesn't benefit it at all to oil quench. Either air quench or 'plate quench' !!
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Robert, point well taken. BUT, ...if it stays hair-shaving sharp after all kinds of batoning and chopping oak for a considerable amount of time, I'm completely fine with that! ( Yeah, I know "considerable amount of time" is a relative term.)
In fact, I'm going outside to the wood pile and baton a "considerable" amount of oak right after I submit this post to see just how much the edge will take before it stops shaving hair. :)
As always, my friend, thanks for the replies. :thumbup:
 
Troop said:
Steve, when you say to stop forging while it's still hot, do you mean while it still has color?
- Thanks!
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I hate to quote color, because it is subjective and varies by incident light, but don't let it get red. I always stop beating it while still orange. I have cracked A2 by hitting it one to many times.
 
There is no test like field dressing something big and hairy.

I have only forged A2 fron 11/16" and 3/4" round stock. I don't see any reason to forge flat bar tool steels.
 
Steve Hayden said:
There is no test like field dressing something big and hairy.
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Thanks for the replies, Steve. Will do. :thumbup:
Off Topic: Speaking of using it on big hairy things, my FFD2 is still going strong on taking out the backstraps of deer! :D There's just no stopping that thing!
 
Steve Hayden said:
There is no test like field dressing something big and hairy.

I have only forged A2 fron 11/16" and 3/4" round stock. I don't see any reason to forge flat bar tool steels.
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I just happen to have flat stock laying around just waiting to jump into my forge.
 
O.K. I just got back from the wood pile. I batoned 10 more pieces of seasoned, quartered oak, and it's still shaving hair. Nothing visible to the eye ref. edge damage.
-I would say that the HT worked pretty damn good! ....... Another satisfied customer of the Troop-Salvati Nessmuk..As always, we aim to please! :D They'll be ready just in time for the holiday season....just kidding, ehhhh.....kind of.
 
mete said:
You'd do a better job if you had a proper temperature controlled furnace .As a complex steel it needs precise temp and time control to get OPTIMUM performance instead of just "shaving hair" !! As an air hardening steel oil quench doesn't benefit it at all to oil quench. Either air quench or 'plate quench' !!
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Robert you are surely right. A2 should be plate or air quenched, but this was sort of a little experiment:D. it will be interesting to see just how it does. I sure wish i had access to temperature controlled salts/oven to do some actual testing, but will have to wait. Mitch, i cannot wait to put this big clip point through it's paces after heat treat.


Steve, you are right the A2 should not be brought down below an orange.
 
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