Thanks, I just didn't know if wetting it and then sanding/rubbing it down would affect the handle since they've already been treated with BLO. I don't care as much about the looks of the handles I'm keeping but a couple I'm selling so would like to keep them looking nice.
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Forgot to raise grain before using BLO, should I leave it or try to fix?
- Thread starter Jlemay18
- Start date
Thanks, I just didn't know if wetting it and then sanding/rubbing it down would affect the handle since they've already been treated with BLO. I don't care as much about the looks of the handles I'm keeping but a couple I'm selling so would like to keep them looking nice.
Yep, exactly. The BLO is going to seal the wood and repel water as long as you've done enough coats. It wont be an issue.
Yeah I figured as much I just didn't want to try doing it and if it did raise, sanding it since its been treated with BLO already. Wasn't sure if that would mess it up, I don't care how it looks for the ones I'm keeping but a few of them I'm selling and unfortunately some people are only looking to buy a pretty axe and money is money, I'm not going to discriminate who I sell the axes to based on reasoning so I just wanted to keep them in good shape to sell.
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AFAIK, Applying BLO will raise grain, although why one would worry about grain raising on a working tool handle, I honestly do not know.
Apologies if these quotes are out of context and create implications not intended by the posters. If that is the case, I will gladly edit this post and delete them.
Just leave it. . . A wise man once wrote "It's an axe handle, not a piano."Keep that in mind.
Those are indeed good ways. but the most foolproof way is to avoid work.
Assuming the same efficiency, durability, cost, looks, . . .whatever, I suppose that most people given the option would choose a handle that was less abrasive on the hands. I don't know who the "us" is in that post. I don't find any responders in this thread (at least) worried about blisters.
My (old guy) perspective on blisters.
I've done a lot manual labor ever since I can remember. When I started as a kid fancy gloves did not exist. And if they did, I doubt my father would have the money or see the need for them. If you got blisters, you would never mention it. It was just a fact of life. However, if someone were to whine about their blisters they would get no sympathy form their peers or adults. In fact, if they did complain, they would probably be teased as a sissy girl or something similar.
Bob
There is a difference between a blister from a stress point from use, that's where your callouses form and then your good. But if your handle is covered in stuff that could give you blisters then your callouses don't mean shit cause it's not just stress points you're dealing with its your entire hand. My firewood has been split since the spring/early summer and I haven't had much time to do more splitting than necessary so admittedly my hands aren't as tough as they usually are. I use my hands for my job, whether you admit it or not blisters suck and slow you down, I'm not concerned about my manhood so I can freely admit that, and if my hands are covered in blisters my work suffers and I make less money. Also most of the axes I didn't raise the grain on are ones I'm selling and I'm not about to knowingly sell a subpar item to someone hoping they won't notice. So before you throw around accusations and are condescending maybe read through all of the comments and you'd get the whole story, you seem to just pick the ones to try and make me look dumb but obviously that's cause you have some problem with me for who knows what reason. I've already said I'm not worried about typical blisters, I have callouses from stress points but those don't cover your entire hand. I've never used an axe that didn't have the grain raised and sanded so it was a legit question, you wouldn't use a rough saw handle if you had a choice so this isn't very different except the grain isn't raised until you start sweating or its raining. And half of the points you quoted were jokes, and if you don't care about your handles that's fine but I put a lot of work into mine to look and feel good, they work better and sell better that way. Money is money, if someone buying my axe to look pretty I'm not going to descriminate. But again idk if you're bored or what but starting problems with me over nothing is pretty lame, if you hadn't stated you were an old man I'd think you were a teenager. And you clearly are being selective with your reading because some people agreed that a handle should be treated like say a piano and the others were answering the question I asked and being helpful, they weren't disagreeing cause they were just being helpful cause I asked a question. So if you don't have anything helpful or productive to add you're just trying to cause a problem, which you've done a few times to me so unless you have anything decent to say I won't be responding to you anymore. Not going to contribute to your negativity on the site.
You even said it yourself that you'd choose the less abrasive option so clearly just trying to start something cause you have a problem with me, for no reason either since the only time I've said anything to you was in response to your negative, unrelated comments on my questions.
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Don't stress the less than helpful commentary. There is no compelling reason not to create the best finished product you can if you're willing to. Working in the rain I have found that yeah, my handles will get that "soft fuzzy" feeling even though they've been oiled, particularly when I've just recently finished one. Not as bad as if I hadn't oiled them at all, and over time they get pretty impervious. No reason you couldn't introduce a little moisture to see if the grain will raise up for you, then knock it off with steel wool or maybe a scotch brite or whatever. I probably wouldn't use sand paper because it's gonna load right up if the handle has oil on it already.
Thanks for the reply, that's what I figured but I wasn't sure so figured I'd ask. Didn't want to ruin the handle but also like you said no reason to not try and have the best finished product you can. I know blisters come with this kind of work and aren't a huge deal but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do something to avoid them if you can. And yeah I try to ignore and avoid the negativity but this guy apparently has a problem with me for who knows what reason, he always has something negative and condescending to reply to my posts with. It just gets annoying because it involves me in the negativity when I try and only bring positivity to the forum but I'm also not one to just put up with being attacked for no reason. But he's clearly just a grumpy old dude with nothing better to do with his time so I'm not going to respond to his negativity anymore.
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There was a post a few months back where a guy put his axes in his meat smoker.....he got a real nice deep rich color on his handles and it probably preserved the wood as well. So most of us dig patina and welcome all kinds of different techniques and ideas.I like a very thin golden varnish layer(after applying whatever type and color stain I can find laying around) because I think it looks cool and ages nice even though blister wise it may not be optimal.Cheers!
Huh that's actually a cool idea I would have never thought of that. But yeah I mean mostly everyone is welcoming of any ideas and questions just a few people like that guy are elitist and think anything different than they do is shit. But he tried starting problems with me before for no reason so I guess he just has too much time on his hands. I have yet to try staining any handles, usually just go with straight BLO but I want to try staining sometime. My favorite handles are either the old ones that darken up or a few reddish hickory ones I've used before. I know they say the whitish hickory is the best quality and they don't look bad but I much prefer how the darker colored ones look, especially when treating them with BLO. The white one just get a yellowish color but the dark ones get darker and look really good. That's why I want to try staining cause I'm sure I'll like how it comes out. Would you recommend staining first then BLO or vise versa? Or would you recommend not mixing the two and using something else with stain?
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Calm down big boy, I said:
Since you already applied BLO:
I am saying that your application of BLO has already raised the grain and I don't see the need for any water.
Do your homework and see if that is not the case. Then come back with your information and post it you feel this is not true.
As far as the blisters go I will admit that:
I TEASED YOU ABOUT IT
Bob
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I added some qualifications, but I think we are in agreement about less abrasive handles:
I don't see a problem.
Bob
I've used my hands to apply BLO and it didn't seem to raise the grain, at least not as much as water will, maybe it takes some time to do so but simply raising the grain isn't what I'm looking to do, it's raising and then sanding it down. I asked the question initially because if I do that post BLO application then it will gum up and screw the handle up. While it wouldn't ruin the handle it would make for more work to correct it so I figured I'd ask to see if people had any other suggestions. And I mean considering your history of giving me shit for no reason and what you said exactly it definitely seemed more than just teasing, plus I was never even complaining about blisters just if there's something simple to be done to make them less likely any rational person would do it. But I don't have the time nor do I care enough to argue and don't really want to contribute to negativity, so have a good one.
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I have no problem with the question itself. My thoughts on this are cheap and directed to the original question and then a little on the difficulty you are having. The responses to your question or whether to stain seems to garner one of four responses:
1. Members asking how to do it,
2. Members sharing tips and tricks,
3. Its not necessary/waste of time, and
4. The only thing that should go into a handle is the dirt and sweat from working hands in the process of doing work.
Hanging a sharpened head on a handle solely intended for use, your use? Doesnt much matter whatever you like and whatever works with your hands.
Have a gaggle of "hafted" Norlunds for sale for a large profit? Raise that grain and brag about it when you hand it to your mark!
This really isnt my place to type (or even think) the following but here is my take on the negativity you are feeling
Jlemay, your thread title is Forgot to raise grain before using BLO, should I leave it or try to fix?
I think maybe some members are taking Forgot as implying it is a requirement or the better way to finish a handle and not really a question of a final touch - even if the axe is just going to sit around and get pet a lot. Too much work on your axe=Dandy! Not enough work on your axe=Green Horn! There is a huge list of dichotomies I have collected from this site that deserves its own thread Reeeeal tightrope/razor's edge stuff!
So, Jlemay, I am going to simply share something I see that might help here. Please don't take this personally - I'd like you to stick around here actually.
I dont think some of the reactions to your post are entirely about raising the grain being necessary. Believe it or not there is kind of a core group that posts here that, to a certain degree, backs each other up, trades off-line, picks stuff for one another, spends time researching something that really is only interesting because someone here would like to know, etc. I get what you mean about negativity but my recommendation is to say I get it and focus on your tools. There are a couple of fights you can fight here but the Old Man one can only be won by the oldest guy here. I don't have a horse in this race but there are members here that are way better at this "game" than you or me.
So back to the grain-razin:
If you think that last step is the final touch on your best faith effort with that axe and it keeps rattling around in the back of your mind, why not just do it? That right there would be all it takes for me to do it.
You don't have to get furniture finish crazy but shape and sand that handle exactly how you want it, use a spray bottle/wet rag, let it dry, and final sand. It cost nothing, it takes 20 minutes (if that) including drying, and now you don't have to think about it anymore.
In fact, you should take a close-up picture of the handle right now in reproducible lighting. Raise that grain and take a picture of what that looks like. Sand it down and take a picture. Oil/treat it with whatever and take a picture. Maybe share that for conversation's sake - that would be productive and add something to the mix of ever-repeated opinions.
Here is a recent experience with Grain Raising:
I had two recently hung axes that I used and left against my house by accident. It rained that night like it seems to all of the time. When I picked up the two axes, the one that I raised the grain on wiped up quickly with no noticeable difference, was dry pretty quickly, and took BLO again. The one I did not raise the grain on had wood fibers sticking up all along the grain. The moisture seemed to penetrate the wood more than the other. I sanded it down again, wet it one more time, and sanded again before oiling. That is my take on what I saw. There definitely could be something else going on there that I am confused about.
These are some more unsolicited thoughts that might play into how someone answers your question and their potential motivations for doing so:
1. These vintage axes that we "covet" and use probably came with rough/raised grain on their handles? The first time they got wet do you think they had standing fibers on them? My general take is that they didnt by the looks of the NOS handles Ive seen on or off an axe in person or posted here.
2. Soft hands aside, is there really a character question, ethical difference, or test of machismo in raising the grain or not on an axe handle? I say no. Citing/complaining of blisters is kind of universally something guys dont want to hear about To me it usually means you were doing work. I dont get blisters using an axe but a rake this time of year will give me some if I am not careful.
3. These really nice looking handles made by obviously skilled members of this forum, would you think less of them to know the craftsman that made them raised the grain? There are some fine axes that people have spent some real time on that should not be discounted because they get handed to someone with a nice finish on them. They will do the same amount of work as one without the grain raised.
This whole raising the grain isnt an issue. Being a solid/interesting pattern that is well-profiled and sharpened, set low on the shoulder of a well-shaped handle is more important.
I do wear gloves working when its cold enough outside and I dont intentionally leave my gear outside just because they are tools.
I do raise the grain on the new handles I prepare - for myself and for others. I like the look and feel of it. I wont stop because it makes me a dandy.
They dont chop any differently with the grain raised.
Oh, and they still give me blisters but that is the last youll hear about it.
Salt is free in this forum, it just depends on much you want served to you
1. Members asking how to do it,
2. Members sharing tips and tricks,
3. Its not necessary/waste of time, and
4. The only thing that should go into a handle is the dirt and sweat from working hands in the process of doing work.
Hanging a sharpened head on a handle solely intended for use, your use? Doesnt much matter whatever you like and whatever works with your hands.
Have a gaggle of "hafted" Norlunds for sale for a large profit? Raise that grain and brag about it when you hand it to your mark!
This really isnt my place to type (or even think) the following but here is my take on the negativity you are feeling
Jlemay, your thread title is Forgot to raise grain before using BLO, should I leave it or try to fix?
I think maybe some members are taking Forgot as implying it is a requirement or the better way to finish a handle and not really a question of a final touch - even if the axe is just going to sit around and get pet a lot. Too much work on your axe=Dandy! Not enough work on your axe=Green Horn! There is a huge list of dichotomies I have collected from this site that deserves its own thread Reeeeal tightrope/razor's edge stuff!
So, Jlemay, I am going to simply share something I see that might help here. Please don't take this personally - I'd like you to stick around here actually.
I dont think some of the reactions to your post are entirely about raising the grain being necessary. Believe it or not there is kind of a core group that posts here that, to a certain degree, backs each other up, trades off-line, picks stuff for one another, spends time researching something that really is only interesting because someone here would like to know, etc. I get what you mean about negativity but my recommendation is to say I get it and focus on your tools. There are a couple of fights you can fight here but the Old Man one can only be won by the oldest guy here. I don't have a horse in this race but there are members here that are way better at this "game" than you or me.
So back to the grain-razin:
If you think that last step is the final touch on your best faith effort with that axe and it keeps rattling around in the back of your mind, why not just do it? That right there would be all it takes for me to do it.
You don't have to get furniture finish crazy but shape and sand that handle exactly how you want it, use a spray bottle/wet rag, let it dry, and final sand. It cost nothing, it takes 20 minutes (if that) including drying, and now you don't have to think about it anymore.
In fact, you should take a close-up picture of the handle right now in reproducible lighting. Raise that grain and take a picture of what that looks like. Sand it down and take a picture. Oil/treat it with whatever and take a picture. Maybe share that for conversation's sake - that would be productive and add something to the mix of ever-repeated opinions.
Here is a recent experience with Grain Raising:
I had two recently hung axes that I used and left against my house by accident. It rained that night like it seems to all of the time. When I picked up the two axes, the one that I raised the grain on wiped up quickly with no noticeable difference, was dry pretty quickly, and took BLO again. The one I did not raise the grain on had wood fibers sticking up all along the grain. The moisture seemed to penetrate the wood more than the other. I sanded it down again, wet it one more time, and sanded again before oiling. That is my take on what I saw. There definitely could be something else going on there that I am confused about.
These are some more unsolicited thoughts that might play into how someone answers your question and their potential motivations for doing so:
1. These vintage axes that we "covet" and use probably came with rough/raised grain on their handles? The first time they got wet do you think they had standing fibers on them? My general take is that they didnt by the looks of the NOS handles Ive seen on or off an axe in person or posted here.
2. Soft hands aside, is there really a character question, ethical difference, or test of machismo in raising the grain or not on an axe handle? I say no. Citing/complaining of blisters is kind of universally something guys dont want to hear about To me it usually means you were doing work. I dont get blisters using an axe but a rake this time of year will give me some if I am not careful.
3. These really nice looking handles made by obviously skilled members of this forum, would you think less of them to know the craftsman that made them raised the grain? There are some fine axes that people have spent some real time on that should not be discounted because they get handed to someone with a nice finish on them. They will do the same amount of work as one without the grain raised.
This whole raising the grain isnt an issue. Being a solid/interesting pattern that is well-profiled and sharpened, set low on the shoulder of a well-shaped handle is more important.
I do wear gloves working when its cold enough outside and I dont intentionally leave my gear outside just because they are tools.
I do raise the grain on the new handles I prepare - for myself and for others. I like the look and feel of it. I wont stop because it makes me a dandy.
They dont chop any differently with the grain raised.
Oh, and they still give me blisters but that is the last youll hear about it.
Salt is free in this forum, it just depends on much you want served to you
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2015
- Messages
- 149
Well this thread certainly has a nice life to it so the bygones should be bygoned by now
! I work at a shop where my boss was/is working on a bunch of projects so he has Minwax...Red Mahogany...Dark Mahogany...Marine varnish for his canoe...and I have some leather boot wax I've also been using. On the few handles I've been refurbishing lately(axes..hammers..pitchforks) all these applications look completely different depending on how the handles start out and how thin or thick you apply the stuff so it's a fun process till it gets to that point where you can say...."That looks all right"...I like that vintage patina look with a rich glow so I'll keep experimenting.The reason I asked if anyone ever made a apple or other fruit wood handle in another thread is because it ages so nice with a really unique patina like this antique tea box I found online.
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! I work at a shop where my boss was/is working on a bunch of projects so he has Minwax...Red Mahogany...Dark Mahogany...Marine varnish for his canoe...and I have some leather boot wax I've also been using. On the few handles I've been refurbishing lately(axes..hammers..pitchforks) all these applications look completely different depending on how the handles start out and how thin or thick you apply the stuff so it's a fun process till it gets to that point where you can say...."That looks all right"...I like that vintage patina look with a rich glow so I'll keep experimenting.The reason I asked if anyone ever made a apple or other fruit wood handle in another thread is because it ages so nice with a really unique patina like this antique tea box I found online.
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Thank you for the well thought out reply it's much appreciated. If I don't respond to every point don't take it personally it's late and I might forget a part or two. I totally get what your saying, I'm not one to think that my way of doing it is the best or the only way to do it, everyone has their preferences. But I tend to sweat more than a normal person and rain is always a potential factor so I always raise and sand down the grain for mine and ones I sell, I keep the ones I sell to the same standard as my own. I wasn't complaining about blisters, i can see how people took it that way but asking about something because it may make blisters less likely isn't complaining, I'd think anyone would make blisters less likely if they could.
I've had good interactions with almost everyone on the forum, even basically all replies on here even if they weren't helpful or necessary I didn't have a problem with. Just that one guy has started a problem with me a couple times for no reason, those are the only times we've interacted. It just gets annoying because it's uncalled for and for no reason, I try to avoid negativity but I also won't just take shit for no reason.
I know some people will sand a handle a bit and leave it at that but I like to sand it up to 220 usually, nothing higher to make it too smooth, raise and sand the grain and then plenty of coats of BLO. I'm not as picky with the looks of the handles of axes I'm keeping but there are plenty of people out there who only want an axe for a wall hanger and want one that looks pretty. While that's not me I'm not going to descriminate, money is money and if I can get a bit more cause the handle looks pretty than so be it.
But basically my whole question was if I could just wet the handle to raise the grain and sand it like normal even though it's already treated with BLO, but I'm assuming it would just gum up. So I'll try it with steel wool or a paper bag like people have recommended otherwise I'm sure it'll wear down with use. Blisters aren't a huge concern to me but I work with my hands and if they can be avoided then I'm going to. As for gloves I prefer not to wear them, even thin ones or ones with good grip you don't get the same feel or control as you do without. So unless it's so cold I need them I usually go without.
But basically it's whatever your preference is, hell if you prefer the varnish that the handle comes with that's your choice, I don't agree and will suggest BLO if they don't know about it but that's as far as it goes, I'm not the one using it so it's not my problem or concern.
Yeah, I can agree with this, too. If it's bugging you, a little water and scotch-brite pad should polish the grain pretty quickly. Just note that I have had the abrasive pad material embedded into the grain after, though it's not a big deal as most of mine are grey and it only enhances the grain.
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- 2,648
Here is an answer.
If you believe that BLO protects wood from water,
and the handle is "already treated with BLO" then:
1.) You should not expect wetting that handle would allow the water to go through the BLO to raise the grain. The water could only reach the wood through a spot not covered with BLO.
2.) And you should not expect water to dissolve or turn the BLO gummy. If it is gummy before wetting with water, it has not cured.
Bob
I said i was assuming it would gum up as someone else had mentioned that but the cause of it gumming up was sanding after it's been treated with BLO. I don't know if it will if it's totally dry, the only time I've sanded after I applied BLO was one of the first times I did and it got sticky and attempted sanding it and it just gummed up but these handles aren't sticky. And I'm just going off what someone else said that sanding the handles after BLO will cause them to gum up, maybe someone can correct them if that's only the case when it's sticky but I'm not taking any chances until then. The whole point of this thread was because I didn't know if BLO would totally waterproof the handles and if I sanded them would it gum up or only if sticky from BLO. I've been doing this for awhile so I know what I'm doing but I also taught myself everything I know, I don't know anyone personally that does this type of stuff so I'll admit that some of the less technical things, like my questions here I don't know because they aren't vital to hanging an axe and I haven't needed to research them yet. And I haven't been using this forum for super long either so up until joining I only really bothered researching essential stuff involved and specific problems I ran into