Frame Constructed Handles – I like them. You?

Good explanation of both handle styles Nick.

I agree, Tim probably uses more frame handles that anyone I can think of.
 
You'd mentioned a Broomhead and Thomas bowie. I picked one up today from an estate and since the grips are missing, it provides a great photo op for frame construction details:

1.jpg


5.jpg


2.jpg
 
Your timing in aquiring that Bowie is perfect for this thread Bob. Any idea when it was made?
 
I realise I'm fairly stupid, but it took me a long while to work out how people put double guards on knives with (what I thought were full tangs:rolleyes:) even though the handle and blade were wider than the part where the guard is fitted.

I think the penny dropped after looking at Jerry Fisks website.:thumbup:

Now I love 'em!

The first I done was so I could have a large flared butt end with a double guard and scales.

P1010175.jpg


The second was so I could have a stainless tang

PA310504.jpg


Awkward to make (for me at least:rolleyes:) but the frame handle gives you a lot of handle options.

They get a big :thumbup: from me.

Ian
 
Here's a picture of the Big Bowie which I have been playing with today:D:D, a beautifully made knife.

P1010165.jpg


With it's coat.

P1010182.jpg
 
I like frame constructed handles VERY much and there have been NUMEROUS fine examples posted on here over time. One feature of frame construction that makes it desireable, is the option for the maker to be creative with liners, filework, etc.

That being said, I also like tapered tangs VERY much especially on smaller knives like hunters.

Peter
 
I'm not a real huge fan of frame handles, though I do recognize, respect and admire the extra skill and precision fit involved in their construction. Though some designs clearly mandate the use of a frame handle, often times it strikes me as complexity for the sake of complexity without any functional benefit.

And there are potential downsides.

1) A frame handle, like a full tang with scales, presents long stretches of metal / handle material seams where a small amount of shrinkage will result in a handle that is both unsightly and uncomfortable. Yes, steps can be taken to minimize the effects of shrinkage - rounding the edges, fitting the handle material fractionally proud of the frame etc. But those risks can't be eliminated and simply don't exist (in the same way) with a full hidden tang.

2) Weight. That's a lot of extra metal in a handle with a frame design and this can contribute to making the knife handle-heavy. Less of an issue with a big bowie where you have a lot of blade to balance it out, but it can become a concern on a small, slender fighter or a hunter. I have picked up a number of frame handled hunters and found them to be much not to my liking both in overall mass and in its significantly handle-biased distribution.

3) Design limitations. With frame handles, some makers will make real efforts to introduce visually appealing and ergonomically sound contours to the scale material (John White comes to mind, as an example), but a great many frame handle knives - I'd say the majority - are pretty much rectangular in cross-section. Flat on top of the frame, flat on the bottom of the frame, with flat sided scales. Nothing wrong with that, just not my personal ergonomic preference - particularly on a knife designed for use.

4) Cost. More complicated for the maker to build, more costly for the customer to purchase.

As for the benefits, yes, it allows the maker to use scale material that would otherwise be unsiutable (in terms of dimension) for the knife in question. But again - personal preference here - I'd rather have the knife with a stag taper or roll or full tusk of ivory versus flat scales of the same material - particualrly on a large fixed blade. The knife below would not be improved, IMHO, with flat scales supported by a metal frame for the handle:


As for providing more opportunity for embellishment such as filework and engraving - yes, it undoubtedly accomplishes that. Though whether that results in a net benefit is often an open question.

I don't pretend to know all there is to know about frame handles, and I would be keen to understand if there is any functional benefit versus other construction methods. Does a frame make for a stronger handle, a more secure handle, a more comfortable handle? If so, I hope some makers will fill me in as to how and why.

I'm not saying frame handles universally suck - I've owned a few and will own more - on the right knife. But for me they are a choice that represents an exception to my rule of preference.

Roger
 
I'm not a real huge fan of frame handles, though I do recognize, respect and admire the extra skill and precision fit involved in their construction. Though some designs clearly mandate the use of a frame handle, often times it strikes me as complexity for the sake of complexity without any functional benefit.

And there are potential downsides.

1) A frame handle, like a full tang with scales, presents long stretches of metal / handle material seams where a small amount of shrinkage will result in a handle that is both unsightly and uncomfortable. Yes, steps can be taken to minimize the effects of shrinkage - rounding the edges, fitting the handle material fractionally proud of the frame etc. But those risks can't be eliminated and simply don't exist (in the same way) with a full hidden tang.

2) Weight. That's a lot of extra metal in a handle with a frame design and this can contribute to making the knife handle-heavy. Less of an issue with a big bowie where you have a lot of blade to balance it out, but it can become a concern on a small, slender fighter or a hunter. I have picked up a number of frame handled hunters and found them to be much not to my liking both in overall mass and in its significantly handle-biased distribution.

3) Design limitations. With frame handles, some makers will make real efforts to introduce visually appealing and ergonomically sound contours to the scale material (John White comes to mind, as an example), but a great many frame handle knives - I'd say the majority - are pretty much rectangular in cross-section. Flat on top of the frame, flat on the bottom of the frame, with flat sided scales. Nothing wrong with that, just not my personal ergonomic preference - particularly on a knife designed for use.

4) Cost. More complicated for the maker to build, more costly for the customer to purchase.

As for the benefits, yes, it allows the maker to use scale material that would otherwise be unsiutable (in terms of dimension) for the knife in question. But again - personal preference here - I'd rather have the knife with a stag taper or roll or full tusk of ivory versus flat scales of the same material - particualrly on a large fixed blade. The knife below would not be improved, IMHO, with flat scales supported by a metal frame for the handle:



As for providing more opportunity for embellishment such as filework and engraving - yes, it undoubtedly accomplishes that. Though whether that results in a net benefit is often an open question.

I don't pretend to know all there is to know about frame handles, and I would be keen to understand if there is any functional benefit versus other construction methods. Does a frame make for a stronger handle, a more secure handle, a more comfortable handle? If so, I hope some makers will fill me in as to how and why.

I'm not saying frame handles universally suck - I've owned a few and will own more - on the right knife. But for me they are a choice that represents an exception to my rule of preference.

Roger

Personally, I base my decisions on how much I like the knife itself, not on a specific type of handle construction. So 100% in agreement, I believe.

Bob
 
WoW, an OLD thread risen from the grave!

Personally, I base my decisions on how much I like the knife itself, not on a specific type of handle construction. So 100% in agreement, I believe.
Bob

I expect most would be in agreement with you Bob. Can't imagine many (if any) collectors would totally focus their collection entirely on a particular handle style. Of course, I could be wrong.

I like the classic look, complexity and the added possibilities of designs elements that frame handle construction presents, however I agree with you in that the combination of components or the entire knife is what draws my attention.

Originally Posted by Bob Hudson>
I should add, that's assuming this is a real B&T.

Originally Posted by Bob Hudson>
Which, it turns out, it is not.

Bob, will you share how you found out that it is not a real B&T as it looks real enough to a novas eye?
 
Funny how the old threads seem to renew themselves.

I saw this topic just started anew on the CKCA and when I noticed the thread here, I chimed in. As I now see, this thread started YEARS ago on blade forums but recently has been added to substantially. Probably because of the brandnew thread on CKCA.

Bob
 
I saw this topic just started anew on the CKCA and when I noticed the thread here, I chimed in. As I now see, this thread started YEARS ago on blade forums but recently has been added to substantially.

Yep - I noticed the same thing.

Roger
 
Bob, I got to agree with you too. I buy a knife because I like it period.
It does not matter to me if it is full Tang, hidden tang or a frame handle, it's what catches my eye.
Personally, I base my decisions on how much I like the knife itself, not on a specific type of handle construction. So 100% in agreement, I believe.

Bob
 
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