Frame lock moving during use?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Peakbagger46, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. Peakbagger46

    Peakbagger46 Gold Member Gold Member

    403
    Apr 20, 2017
    I’m fairly new to frame locks. Today I was using my ZT 0460 to whittle and noticed the lockbar moved in a substantial amount due to my grip. Is this normal? First picture is position of the lock upon opening, second picture shows how much it travels in when the knife is gripped with a bit of muscle.

    https://imgur.com/gallery/L4gF7Mh
     
  2. Sergeua

    Sergeua Gold Member Gold Member

    May 1, 2016
    It can happen and it's not a sign of quality.
    If you complain you can probably get it replaced.
    Is there any vertical play when the lock bar is in the first position pictured?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2019
    115Italian likes this.
  3. MolokaiRider

    MolokaiRider Gold Member Gold Member

    Sep 13, 2017
    The three Kershaw Knockout’s I have do that.

    The locks had never failed though.

    I think when you bear down hard, late lockup is inevitable.

    I don’t own many frame locks though. I imagine with more precise engineering it should not be so prevalent.

    *still saving for a Chris Reeve*

    :)
     
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  4. ShadyMethods

    ShadyMethods Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Apr 9, 2016
    It's a known problem with a few ZT models so I'm not surprised to see it on the 0460. It's not a normal thing to see on framelocks and it means the lock geometry could use some improvement. I've just learned to live with it on my 0452CF.
     
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  5. Peakbagger46

    Peakbagger46 Gold Member Gold Member

    403
    Apr 20, 2017
    Zero blade play in either position.
     
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  6. Sergeua

    Sergeua Gold Member Gold Member

    May 1, 2016
    You can probably force the lock bar in on a lot of framelocks out there but yours is going in way too far. Like, it shouldn't be touching the other scale. Yours looks like it almost does and the knife is pretty new...
     
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  7. 017

    017

    196
    Mar 31, 2016
    My ZT 0850 moves from roughly 25% to about 50-70%, depending on how hard I'm pushing the knife.
     
  8. colin.p

    colin.p

    801
    Feb 4, 2017
    My 0450 cf moves the harder I press on the lock bar or how hard I bear down on the knife. Normal lock up is maybe 15-20% but 70% when pressed. Haven't experienced any lock failure at all.
     
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  9. AmosPaul

    AmosPaul Gold Member Gold Member

    433
    Dec 17, 2014
    This is normal for framelocks, one of the many reasons I don't purchase framelocks anymore.
     
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  10. GermanyChris

    GermanyChris

    Feb 18, 2015
    This is normal for poorly done or burred frame locks not all frame locks
     
  11. Dallas T

    Dallas T Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2013
    Yep and I don’t like it either, had an xm18 “hard use” folder move around like that, which was a well made knife.
    But also why i don’t do frame locks any more either. I’ve had multiple brands of multiple models do this.
     
    DocJD likes this.
  12. Peakbagger46

    Peakbagger46 Gold Member Gold Member

    403
    Apr 20, 2017
    Apparently this is not uncommon with ZT framelocks; I dug up this old thread about a 0452 and quite a few folks reported similar findings: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/zt-0452-lock-up.1304657/

    As mine can be easily disengaged with one hand after the bar over-travels, I’m inclined to see it as a non issue. It likely even makes accidental closure when using the knife hard less likely.
     
  13. Gideons

    Gideons Basic Member Basic Member

    Dec 9, 2015
    I will give an alternate perspective. This is actually a good thing. Why? Because it shows when force is applied to the framelock, the angle of the framelock causes it to move inward, and not outward preventing lock slip/failure. While it can be annoying/concerning, I do find after more use the framelock will break in and settle in, limiting the amount that the framelock will move during use. As long as the when the framelock moves inward there is no rockslip (vertial blade play), the lockup isn't compromised.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2019
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  14. Black Oak Bladeworks

    Black Oak Bladeworks Gold Member Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Gold Member

    261
    Jun 5, 2019
    I have had a few kershaws that did that. It shouldn't be a problem as long as the blade doesn't move when it is locked up.
     
  15. cistercian

    cistercian Gold Member Gold Member

    411
    Apr 22, 2015
    I find carbon scaled on one side ti on the other side more prone to this than
    all Ti construction. It is normal...the lockbar can flex like a spring (bow) and shrink
    in overall length...causing late lockup. Framelock is not the best type of lock
    for beating the crap out of a knife...but it sure makes for convenient light
    edc pocket swords. I think framelocks are fine for all normal folder use.
    But if you are using it super hard and the lock moves a bunch...and it
    bothers you...great news! There is a world of epic fixed blades to explore!!!!

    I don't want to come off as being a dick here...I did not like frame locks for
    a very long time because of this. Then I got realistic about what lock behavior
    was ok and how various locks respond to heavy use VS what I actually use a knife for.
    I would not use a frame lock for whittling. I would use a slippy or a lockback because
    I find when carving I can squeeze the hell out of the handle...especially on knots.
    And that will make the lockbar travel...and bow. I prize framelocks because all of mine
    are flippers that deploy like lightning. Great for cardboard, opening boxes, self defense.
    So what you see is perfectly normal...with great force you can over travel it.
    Just don't do that!
     
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  16. razor-edge-knives

    razor-edge-knives Moderator Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Apr 3, 2011
    It's not a bad thing... It is pretty normal for frame locks with steel inserts. The angle must be ground shallower than with ti which can allow this to happen. Shirogorov's do this as well, they just have a tab to prevent it from traveling to 100%.I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  17. allenC

    allenC

    Jun 18, 2000
    It's definitely not a good thing, and here's why...

    Over time the lock will wear from the thousands of openings (especially if it's a flipper opener, because flipping usually induces more force than using the thumb stud), and as the lock wears it will move farther toward the non-lock scale (it's designed to do that).

    But if it's already touching the non-lock scale, what will happen when the lock wears down over time?
    Blade play and lock slop!
     
    Sergeua likes this.
  18. marchone

    marchone Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 13, 2013
    I observed my new Shiro HatiOn Lite to move from its normal 10% to 50% under prolonged use. An exposed tension bar is asking for pressure to be applied depending on the grip I'm using from whole handle to a scalpel hold. But it's nowhere near the CF scale side.

    My linerlocks (F3 and Cheburkov Strizh) can't do it because the lock is inside and inaccessible under normal usage.
     
  19. brownshoe

    brownshoe I support this site with my MIND

    Sep 6, 2002
    It doesn't happen on my Sebenza, Ziebas or CRKT Ti Eros. Sometimes it happens a little bit on my beat to hell Buck Mayo, but Buck says it can't be fixed since there are no parts to fix it. Buck says it's safe though and offered me MSRP in credit.
     
  20. Peakbagger46

    Peakbagger46 Gold Member Gold Member

    403
    Apr 20, 2017
    Hmm... Seems like this one may need to go back to ZT.
     

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