Frame-Locks (ala Sebenza)

Compare the Camillus EDC and the Outdoor Edge Paragee. The EDC locks up nice and firm. The Paragee has some very noticable vertical flex to the lock bar.

Paul
 
Has anyone mentioned the DDR tactical and the just release Buck Mayo model 172 - both has framelock.

Though I don't have a frame lock - use the camillus EDC and the Paragee not hard enough to really comment on the strength of the lock.
 
The DDR is an interesting case, months of interest while they where being made, then no much comment after they got into user's hands.
 
I have been rather enthusiastic of the Kershaw/Ken Onion Vapor - because my one sample seems exemplarily.

I thought it was amazing value for money at under $20 from Wal*Mart. The fact that these are now made in China with Japanese steels - to me should not have made any material difference from my made in Japan single sample.

Since the knife is cheap enough and easily available in Wally-world - would others please be kind enough to tell us what their experiences are with the Vapor - do the Vapors lock up solid? - has there been any tendency for sloppy or dubious locks?

Also please comment on whether squeezing the lock will make it move and whether it engages more - however this might not be a reflection on the reliablility or quality of the lock - because even my Sebenzas will move and engage more.

Thanks.
 
I just got the Cutter/Brend in my hand a little while ago, and talk about a lock and lockup!! The lock comes over to cover about 30% to 40% of the blade tang and seems to lock it very securely. The blade has absolutely no play in any direction. You can push the lock bar over to between 40 to 50 percent engagement, but that is where it stops. Like the RF-1 it is going to take some force to move it over any more than that. I'm very pleased with the lockup on the Cutter/Brend. As for the rest of the knife I will post about that in the appropriate thread.

Okay, now that I have figured out that the lock bar will not move over on the RF-1 and the Cutter/Brend without some great force to do so, what have I really found out? I am assuming this means that wear on these locks will take a V E R Y L O N G time to occur. I also assume that the locks will keep the blades from suffering any vertical play for that same period of time.

So am I correct in assuming all these things? I assumed the Sebenza lock would not move over but it does on UnknownVT's. I knew the Sebenza to have the best framelock in the buisness, and still know that!!:D Although, Hermes if you read this, J.W. has got it right up there and may be just a smidge better:eek: :eek: :)

So chime in here and lets figure out this framelock and see what really matters on one and what doesn't!!
 
Art: Bastard! Now you've got me interested in the RF1. What I've seen of JW Smith's work is very nice, though I've never owned one by him myself. Some questions for you: How is the general fit & finish on the RF1? How thick is it compared to the Sebenza? There's not even a hint of finger protection up front, no worries about that in hard use? 3.5" blade and 4.75" handle? Thanks!

Joe
 
Okay Joe, you've opened up a can of worms now starting me talking about J.W.!! Fit and finish on every one of the tacticals I've had from John is top notch. It is amazing because you get the fit and finish of one of his $2000 art knives on a $400 tactical/utility knife. I know a lot of what I have to say about John's knives sounds like hype but it isn't. He is that good. The RF-1 I have is an XL model I suppose as it has a 4" blade and is 9.25" opened. The titanium sideplates are .130" thick, while the blade goes .160" thick. There is a 2/3 length backspacer made from titanium that really serves to strengthen the overall knife, especially the frame. The handles are attatched to the backspacer by 4 screws each and when together it looks like the three pieces are one solid piece. Weight is around 6.6 ounces so it is hefty but the feel is great. It does have the carbon fiber overlays on the back half of the handles that serve to fit into the area right below the palm of your hand and really fill out the hand. Very comfortable. The front end does flare both top and bottom and with the cf overlays "locked" into your hand the hand ain't going nowhere! The top of the blade has horizontal grooves that just rise above the ti frame enough to give you some serious purchase on it. The locking bar as done by John is one of the stiffest I've ever felt. He cuts the spring shorter and puts a greater bend on the shorter spring resulting in a stiff spring. It is not going to come unlocked until you physically unlock it.

Now with all that said. It is about a XL RF-1 which to my knowledge there have only been 4 currently made. The Rf-1's I've seen advertised all have a 3.5" blade but I don't see them being a lot different but I've never seen one except in the picture. I don't really know if John downscaled everything very much. I know on the 3.5" bladed Scimitar that it is fairly hefty so I would think it has the thicker components. A Scimitar weighs in at 5.4 ounces while the RF-1 with 3.5" blade weighs in at 4.3 ounces. That's not a lot of weight but it does give you an idea of the thickness of parts used.

Hope this helps you some...........NOW GO GET A RF-1!!
 
I have the smaller vapor from walmart, it locks up pretty good, no obvious bladeplay, but the lock only covers about 50%. It comes sharp enough, I will have to touch it up, but it's a little small for me. If you wear jeans, it will fit into the watch pocket just fine, but since I have a lighter in there (don't smoke, but have it just because), it has to compete for space with my 6 year old endura.
 
Well Art, you KNOW how much i hate to agree with you... :)

But, everything you said about JWS is true.

I still think CR is the only maker to have absolutely mastered the framelock, as he should since he has had the time to perfect it, the only custom maker i have seen that comes close is JWS, he clearly spends the time making sure the lock is fitted just right. Oops, i should add that Tom Mayos knives, the few that i have played with, also had perfect locks, but i havent seen that many to have a good sample. Whereas i cant say the same for a bunch of other well regarded makers of tactical knives, its so very common for me to see several knives by a well respected maker, all well made with good locks, then see one of his with a noticably flawed lock. It's disheartening, which is why i like Sebenzas so much, i have seen more Sebenzas than customs, probably at least a hundred, and while i have found endless flaws in various high-end customs, i have found virtually NONE in any Sebenza, i saw a single Sebenza with a slightly uncentered blade once, thats IT, and honestly, i was shocked, whereas it is almost normal to see that on a custom, even very expensive ones. The Sebenza is a great knife for a perfectionist like me, just wish there was more variety as the Sebenza design gets old pretty quick, even with wood inlays. :(
 
Originally posted by Horizon_Seeker
I have the smaller vapor from walmart, it locks up pretty good, no obvious bladeplay, but the lock only covers about 50%.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the report.

As promised I also went to my local Wal*Mart do some QC - and asked to handle a Vapor.

It was indeed made in China - very clearly shown with prominent stickers on the box.

I know again it is only one single sample - but that one surprised me.

The lock was solid at 50% coverage and even deliberately using the thumb to further engage the lock would not move it.

However it was the action that really had me envious -
it was really, really smooth - felt like it was good finish surfaces moving is light grease. It was so smooth that I tried it several time just to try to NOT like it - and prevent myself from buying it on the spot!

I know it's only $20 but hey, do I really need another? (well... this one is plain edged......)

I'll probably be in the vicinity of Wal*Mart again and will go try another sample - but if they are as smooth as that one - this time I might not be able to resist acquiring it........
 
I think walmart only carries the small plain edged vapor. I tried three walmart before I could find one with it in stock, apparently they didn't think it would sell too well, so only a few were ordered for each store, and they sold out real quick. had to go to porter ranch to get mine.
 
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