Framelocks: Am I doing it wrong?

T

TLoFP

Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
110
So every frame-lock I have ever handled had the same problem (i.e. ZT 0562 and Sebenza). I can't get the damn suckers open. The way I grab the knife my dominant fingers fall on the frame-lock. Hence when I engage the flipper or thumb-stud I am putting extra pressure on the detent. The more secure my grip the harder the damn things are to open. Now I can get around this by holding it all weird/weak, but that doesn't seem right. Given the finesse needed to smoothly open these I just don't think that is something I would want to do under stress. In other words it is a big minus for tactical applications (IMO).

Is this something that you all experience too? Or am I just doing it wrong?

- T
 
I have never had a Sebenza that has had a problem opening. I can tell you some of the 562s are harder to open than others. What is the serial number on your 562?
 
I have the best luck cupping framelocks in my hand rather than gripping them. Its all muscle memory when it comes to deploying in a stressful situation, no different than guns.

I meant flipper framelocks.
 
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whitty said:
I have never had a Sebenza that has had a problem opening. I can tell you some of the 562s are harder to open than others. What is the serial number on your 562?
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1423. I only handled the sebenza in store, so I didn't have a chance to play with it. But it was no where near as smooth as my Al Mar SERE 2000, and I blame it on me putting pressure on the lock bar.
 
You more than likely have one with a countersink. A customer recently pointed this out to me. Most ZT0562s only have one perfect hole where the detent ball snaps in. Some however have what looks like a larger hole with a smaller hole in it. These make the knife lock up tighter. Some people love it because the knife flies out when it breaks the detent, others do not like it so much. If you open the knife and look down as the hole passes the space on the lockbar you will be able to see what I am talking about. Any added pressure just makes it that much harder to open!
 
You're doing it wrong.
I'm left handed, I have no issues deploying a right handed knife with either hand. It's a matter of positioning fingers to avoid the lock bar. I use the pocket clip as a point of contact pressure and the top edge of the lock bar and apply pressure downward instead of across the knife. It's second nature for me to open a knife in this manner. You may just need to acclimate yourself until it feels natural.
As far as a flipper goes, I don't know what to say about that, the ZT knives are the easiest knives to deploy because of the strong detent they have.


 
Why would you need to open your knife under stress? Are you working in a high-risk occupation?
Perhaps a folder isn't the right choice for your "tactical applications"...

If by "tactical applications" you mean "carrying it for self defense/assassinating cardboard", then I would just get over that fact and just get used to a dang framelock, it's not science, your hand will figure it out eventually...
 
I have handle a helluva lot of frame locks and have never had any trouble opening or closing.... Maybe you should think about moving to a locking mechanism that goes with the way you deploy your blade...i.e., Axis lock, compression lock, etc.
 
I know what you mean but I've never had that major a problem with it. I usually anchor my last two or three fingers to the clip somehow to give opening leverage and stability---usually allows the fingers to pull back from the lockbar slightly. I may notice more difficulty opening knives with no clip to anchor to but I rarely handle such animals. Do the knives you are experiencing this with have clips?

I know some thin smooth aluminum handles seem so slick they can give me minor problems like that. I don't notice it so much on slab Ti though, not sure why. I wear an XXL glove on average and have thick fingers (which made me give up on guitar an' I'd probably be lousy on a piano) if that's any help.​

Only other thing I can think of is if you're just now discovering them it takes a little getting used to...but it sounds like you've handled them for a while.

Not sure what would be causing you so much difficulty with them. Maybe some people's hands just aren't as set up for the motions required....kind of like some people can clip-carry all their lives but some lose knives a lot when they carry that way. Different builds and sizes....
 
whitty said:
You more than likely have one with a countersink. A customer recently pointed this out to me. Most ZT0562s only have one perfect hole where the detent ball snaps in. Some however have what looks like a larger hole with a smaller hole in it. These make the knife lock up tighter. Some people love it because the knife flies out when it breaks the detent, others do not like it so much. If you open the knife and look down as the hole passes the space on the lockbar you will be able to see what I am talking about. Any added pressure just makes it that much harder to open!
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Thanks I will check on this.

Ajack60 said:
You're doing it wrong.
I'm left handed, I have no issues deploying a right handed knife with either hand. It's a matter of positioning fingers to avoid the lock bar. I use the pocket clip as a point of contact pressure and the top edge of the lock bar and apply pressure downward instead of across the knife. It's second nature for me to open a knife in this manner. You may just need to acclimate yourself until it feels natural.
As far as a flipper goes, I don't know what to say about that, the ZT knives are the easiest knives to deploy because of the strong detent they have.
Click to expand...

Got it. So you do avoid the lockbar. When I put my fingers on the pocket clip of the ZT then it flies right out.

Blues Bender said:
Why would you need to open your knife under stress? Are you working in a high-risk occupation?
Perhaps a folder isn't the right choice for your "tactical applications"...

If by "tactical applications" you mean "carrying it for self defense/assassinating cardboard", then I would just get over that fact and just get used to a dang framelock, it's not science, your hand will figure it out eventually...
Click to expand...

When I walk to work in Baltisuck I sometimes get attacked by mutant Grizzlies. For those situations I like to have a knife that I can quickly deploy and that is sturdy enough to go through the Grizzlie's armor. Since I live in the greatest city of them all I am not allowed to carry fixed blade knives.

Sorry for the sarcasm but I don't assassinate cardboard nor do I think every poster that mentions the word tactical and folding knives in the same breath needs to receive a lesson on how his world views are skewed.

To be a bit more practical. A tactical situation is one where you have to perform under stress. This could be a dog attacking you or it could be as simple as you crashing your car, hanging upside down and needing to cut your seat belt. You are right though, I should probably carry a katana for both of those situations.
 
EChoil said:
I know what you mean but I've never had that major a problem with it. I usually anchor my last two or three fingers to the clip somehow to give opening leverage and stability---usually allows the fingers to pull back from the lockbar slightly. I may notice more difficulty opening knives with no clip to anchor to but I rarely handle such animals. Do the knives you are experiencing this with have clips?

I know some thin smooth aluminum handles seem so slick they can give me minor problems like that. I don't notice it so much on slab Ti though, not sure why. I wear an XXL glove on average and have thick fingers (which made me give up on guitar an' I'd probably be lousy on a piano) if that's any help.​

Only other thing I can think of is if you're just now discovering them it takes a little getting used to...but it sounds like you've handled them for a while.

Not sure what would be causing you so much difficulty with them. Maybe some people's hands just aren't as set up for the motions required....kind of like some people can clip-carry all their lives but some lose knives a lot when they carry that way. Different builds and sizes....
Click to expand...

Yes! I am getting the feeling that I am just "doing it wrong". Frame-locks are new to me. I guess my hands just have to get used to them. I should give it a couple of months of daily carry before I judge it. (Maybe I will warm up to lock-backs too... )

Thanks everyone! This has made me feel a little bit less dumb. I guess opening the ZT562 just takes slightly different technique.
 
I have experienced what you are talking about, but rarely, and cannot remember the particular knife. I buy only framelocks these days and love 'em. CRK's, ZT's, Spyderco, whatever...
The folks are right; you just have to get used to not putting pressure on the lockbar...
No sweat; it's a fun learning exercise and it, too, shall pass.
 
You might want to consider a Daishō set instead, the Wakizashi might be a little quicker when fighting those bears:thumbup:
 
TLoFP said:
Yes! I am getting the feeling that I am just "doing it wrong". Frame-locks are new to me. I guess my hands just have to get used to them. I should give it a couple of months of daily carry before I judge it. ..........
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I had a feeling that's what it might be but wasn't sure how to ask. Hang in there and you WILL get it.

I first started "tactical" opening with a Benchmade Panther in the early '90's---it's a liner (Walker) lock but still similar in hold and motion. I remember it took a while (maybe even weeks?) to really get it down and it seemed awkward for a long time. I'd get real frustrated due to it being inconsistent in how far the blade would go on each attempt, stud slips, etc...probably cut myself a few times too.

What happens is you suddenly 'snap' to doing it right. It's a sudden thing where finally that blade flies open and locks and you go, "Wow, can I do that again?" After that it comes fast and you become more consistent with it quicker. Finally it becomes second nature (but will still vary minutely between knives). I bet a few here will back me on having that revelatory moment themselves.

Basically, imagine a straight line from the thumb stud to the pivot. Make the thumb flick exactly perpendicular to that line for the most part....sometimes it will seem counterintuitive but that's the physics of it. You'll see what I mean as you practice. Many people waste a lot of the learning curve because it can "feel" or look like the thumb direction should be a little different than that.​

Be patient, I know exactly what you mean. Guarantee you'll get it though. It literally comes as a sudden epiphany in the night. 50/50 your thumb might be bandaged by then too, depending on the knife. You can consider that normal as well. :)
 
Framelocks with exposed bars are definitely harder than ones where a clip covers the bar. Also, with the Sebenza you use your nail more than the pad of your thumb.
 
Dude, let it break in a bit. My Sebenza was pretty stiff detent-wise when it was brand new. After a few weeks it smoothed out considerably. Now it doesn't matter how I hold it; it opens just fine.

I've always had the somewhat unpopular opinion that any knife that requires a "technique" to open, or has some kind of "learning curve", is a bad design (assuming it's already broken in). A folding knife should be simple and intuitive when it comes to opening and closing. If I have to seek help online about how to open a freakin knife then it's a failed design, or at least a bad egg. Like the whole lightswitch vs pushbutton technique when it comes to flippers. Really? No, you're over thinking it, just flip it. If you don't like the way it operates thats fine. There are plenty of other options out there, but it should never be complicated or require some unnatural feeling finger yoga style grip.
//end rant
 
whitty said:
I have never had a Sebenza that has had a problem opening. I can tell you some of the 562s are harder to open than others. What is the serial number on your 562?
Click to expand...

My 0562 is a real b**** to open, the detent is super strong. I still love it.
 
Yes - I've had the same experience. It's due to putting pressure on the pocket clip, or lockbar with your fingers. It goes away after awhile and you get accustomed on how you need to hold it while you open it. I don't notice it anymore on my CRK's.

On knives where the pocket clip is only half on the lockbar, and the other half on the frame, you've never noticed it because your fingers on the clip aren't applying pressure on the lockbar.
 
It's normal, and another reason why I prefer liner or bolster locks.

Blues Bender said:
Why would you need to open your knife under stress? Are you working in a high-risk occupation?
Perhaps a folder isn't the right choice for your "tactical applications"...

If by "tactical applications" you mean "carrying it for self defense/assassinating cardboard", then I would just get over that fact and just get used to a dang framelock, it's not science, your hand will figure it out eventually...
Click to expand...

It's naive to think that only "tactical" situations are stressful. I would include making quick cuts on the job with little time to spare as stressful. Difficulty or interference in opening your knife in that kind of situation can result in a dropped knife, injury to the hands if the knife wasn't fully deployed, risk to others' safety, and damage to the knife.

There's a difference between leisurely cutting cardboard or paper in your own home and having to make those cuts in a busy environment where dozens of people are bustling around and bumping into you, where multitasking is part of the job and seconds on the clock matter.
 
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