FREAKONOMICS: Counterfeits may help authentic brands. But there is a BIG 'IF'

[bhyde]

Could someone please explain the resistance to reality?.. the points being made here are consistent with some of the threads from 2012.. and even Chris Reeve Knives openly acknowledges the problem is getting much worse.

Chris Reeve isn't typically in the habit of having others tell him how to run his business and is quite aware of the problems at hand so I am unsure what your goal is with this thread..Change our minds..as in the forum users or influence some change with how CRK does business?

 

[kidcongo]

Ok here is the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH, and nothing but the TRUTH, so help me GOD.

CRK really has no vested interest in creating some serial number system or method of marking their knives with a hologram, or managing some database of HTML codes associated with their knives:

Such things only help the second-hand market.......There is nothing in it for the CRK company.

CRK is interested in selling you a new knife through their list of Authorized Dealers. This is how CRK makes a profit, pays their employees, funds R&D, and keeps the lights on at the shop. The authorized dealers are most likely selected as they have a personal business relationship with CRK and can be assumed to be trustworthy.

CRK makes nothing from having used/secondhand knives endlessly swapped back and forth on the forums, or ebay, etc. At most they end up having to do a free spa treatment.

So why would CRK invest endless hours in developing some rock-solid anti-counterfit scheme to help you buy and sell used knives with confidence? If you buy one of their knives, you can buy it from the list of authorized sellers on the CRK website and be almost completely certain you will get a genuine CRK.

I would strongly argue that the amount of "doubt" about counterfeit knives actually helps the authorized dealers, increases sales of new knives, and puts a damper on second hand sales and ebay transactions. CRK wants their aurthorized dealers to be successful and promote their product, so having the customer base leary and nervous of ebay deals and forum swaps is actually good for business.


I can't see why they would want it any other way.

 

[yexactly]

Chris Reeve isn't typically in the habit of having others tell him how to run his business and is quite aware of the problems at hand so I am unsure what your goal is with this thread..Change our minds..as in the forum users or influence some change with how CRK does business?

Could you please point out exactly where I 'told Chris Reeves how to run his business'?

Came across an article that includes findings from experts that indicates there are benefits to knockoffs (to both the business and legitimate customers) so long as customers can distinguish.. thought people were more aware of the difficulties distinguishing the most recent Counterfeits being produced.

Since, knives are assets that can be resold.. this is an issue that affects any legitimate owner of the knife being counterfeited.. figured that the thread would be of interest to other CRK enthusiasts and that possible solutions could be generated and discussed.. but, like the threads in 2012, most of the discussion has centered around whether this is a problem in the first place..

 

[Haze]

Borderline trolling pic removed

Could someone please explain the resistance to reality?.. the points being made here are consistent with some of the threads from 2012.. and even Chris Reeve Knives openly acknowledges the problem is getting much worse.

What is your "reality" here exactly ?

The reality to us is that we're already rather familiar with this whole fake knives nonsense. It is a fact that "they" can not produce an exact copy that will fool a person that has and knows genuine CRKs. They may well fool people that don't know any better and that is where the real potential for problem lies. There is already simple and solid solutions that problem though.

Trying to insult people that do know better is going to get you nowhere, I too have to wonder where you're trying to go with this thread ?.....

 

[kidcongo]

Could you please point out exactly where I 'told Chris Reeves how to run his business'?

Came across an article that includes findings from experts that indicates there are benefits to knockoffs (to both the business and legitimate customers) so long as customers can distinguish.. thought people were more aware of the difficulties distinguishing the most recent Counterfeits being produced.

Since, knives are assets that can be resold.. this is an issue that affects any legitimate owner of the knife being counterfeited.. figured that the thread would be of interest to other CRK enthusiasts and that possible solutions could be generated and discussed.. but, like the threads in 2012, most of the discussion has centered around whether this is a problem in the first place..

As per you article, I agree it helps the brands. I also agree it is a problem, but would argue they are much better off not dealing with it, as it would not necessarily help them sell more knives. This is a discussion of interest, so maybe take a chance to look at what everyone has contributed before accusing everyone of missing your point, or living in the past. That's an awfully high horse to mount.

It's a good group of people that contribute on this forum, maybe give everyone's opinion a chance.

 

[bhyde]

Could you please point out exactly where I 'told Chris Reeves how to run his business'?

Came across an article that includes findings from experts that indicates there are benefits to knockoffs (to both the business and legitimate customers) so long as customers can distinguish.. thought people were more aware of the difficulties distinguishing the most recent Counterfeits being produced.

Since, knives are assets that can be resold.. this is an issue that affects any legitimate owner of the knife being counterfeited.. figured that the thread would be of interest to other CRK enthusiasts and that possible solutions could be generated and discussed.. but, like the threads in 2012, most of the discussion has centered around whether this is a problem in the first place..

First,- We can all agree that the fakes, copies and "tribute" type knives do nothing for resale value as it CAN be hard to tell unless you have some insight and or a group of people to help avoid this. We can and often do help to this end...It's what we, the enthusiasts can do for each other.

Second- It's hard to tell when intent when this stuff comes up. We are not mind readers and quite frankly, I haven't seen you post in this particular forum..You can see how it would look a bit odd to come in discussing the merits of copies, showing the methods that may be used to copy (tool) and then get upset when it's not as well received as you would like so you post something that may offend many.

Third- Do you have any CRK products or are you on a mission to educate us? Education is good..I look forward to it when the opportunity arises..We can all use some education to be honest.. If you are a CRK enthusiast, have you called and asked what the statement from their website means exactly rather than making an assumption? Perhaps it simply means that they may not be able to tell from a blurry photograph taken from 10
paces?

 

[yexactly]

As per you article, I agree it helps the brands. I also agree it is a problem, but would argue they are much better off not dealing with it, as it would not necessarily help them sell more knives. This is a discussion of interest, so maybe take a chance to look at what everyone has contributed before accusing everyone of missing your point, or living in the past. That's an awfully high horse to mount.

It's a good group of people that contribute on this forum, maybe give everyone's opinion a chance.

Think you made some excellent points..

Before responding.. Will address the 'high horse' point.

Shouldn't have been as abrasive and regret it now.. but it was in the context of having a 'tin hat' image posted and being accused of 'telling Chris Reeve how to run his business'. But, very much appreciate the value of BF and the contributors who make it what it is.. when it comes to knives am a true noob and know very little by comparison and what have learned - owe mostly to the people in this community..

Back to your main point. Agree with you that manufacturers may be better off now.. while the used versions are going for 75-90% of the New price and you are certain to get an authentic by buying new. But what happens when the after market is so saturated with near perfect branded counterfeits AND authentic that are indistinguishable? The price of the used knives will plummet as the supply increases and the market can't determine that any are fakes.

So if the price of second hand knives drops off (instead of being worth 85% of the original it only costs 50%) at some point demand will shift from buying new knives to buying used knives.. and for manufacturers competition with the after market will increase.

 

[kidcongo]

I have not seen any attempt from Strider, CRK, Hinderer, Spyderco, etc to truly counteract the fakery. All of these companies have smart people working for them, and the resources to do any number of things to that any of us can think of to make the "real" knives distinguishable from the fakes.

I can only assume it is a very low priority as they are all in the business of selling new knives through their dealers. While it may be unfortunate if you buy a second-hand fake, or a "new" fake from a shady dealer, I don't think that really affect anyone's decision to buy a new knife from an authorized dealer. I don't think anyone thinks to themselves "I would never buy a new Sebenza because it will be hard to prove it's real when I sell it". People just aren't like that for the most part. Any action to make the knives more unique or registered will cost money, which will drive up the price, and perhaps result in fewer sales. I don't expect to see any action on this item from CRK.

It has been very interesting subject to consider, and I agree would be great if something was done.


Also....no offense taken......It's knives......people get excited!

 

[yexactly]

First,- We can all agree that the fakes, copies and "tribute" type knives do nothing for resale value as it CAN be hard to tell unless you have some insight and or a group of people to help avoid this. We can and often do help to this end...It's what we, the enthusiasts can do for each other.

Second- It's hard to tell when intent when this stuff comes up. We are not mind readers and quite frankly, I haven't seen you post in this particular forum..You can see how it would look a bit odd to come in discussing the merits of copies, showing the methods that may be used to copy (tool) and then get upset when it's not as well received as you would like so you post something that may offend many.

Third- Do you have any CRK products or are you on a mission to educate us? Education is good..I look forward to it when the opportunity arises..We can all use some education to be honest.. If you are a CRK enthusiast, have you called and asked what the statement from their website means exactly rather than making an assumption? Perhaps it simply means that they may not be able to tell from a blurry photograph taken from 10
paces?

Yes. Purchased my first, a small sebenza 21 last week.. am trying to break it in as am writing this..

 

[bhyde]

Yes. Purchased my first, a small sebenza 21 last week.. am trying to break it in as am writing this..

Nice!

So far, what are your thoughts on the first one?

Congrats btw

 

[nyefmaker]

I have a Major issue with this and No Study, or Survey would ever change my mind. Back in the 70-80's, I think we can agree the Buck 110 was one of the most recognizable knives out there, it still is, but in that day and age, its was pretty much King of the folding knife world. The market was also flooded with Pakistan knockoffs or fakes as you will. They were not even remotely close in quality. But it was a clear copy. Some were better than others, but it was still a copy of a proven design...............Fast forward

TODAY..........There are makers Putting a companies NAME on the item, Packaging the knife the Same Way and selling it as GENUINE. This is not only true with CRK, but is happening to Hinderer, Strider and some of the other Big Time makers out there.

SELLING IT AS GENUINE......?????????? WTF.

These people obviously have the skills to make their own design. Make their own mark on the cutlery world, yet they STEAL designs from other Makers like Chris Reeve, Rick Hinderer, Mick Strider. The WORST part for me is that they push these as the Real McCoy, as Genuine.

Even those educated in what to look for get bit by the fake bug, and are getting bit far more often than in the past. In some cases, its not until a knife is sent in for a spa treatment that its realized its a fake. This is just plain WRONG on so many levels.

We are at the point where you pretty much just have to buy from a dealer and forgo the forums and ebay and such to get a genuine knife.

For those intentionally buying fakes and selling them as genuine, you sir deserve a punch square in the nose repeatedly for every single one you sell or try to sell.

I could go on and on, but you get my point.....!!!!!

 

[yexactly]

Nice!

So far, what are your thoughts on the first one?

Congrats btw

Thanks! What surprised me was how well it grips when cutting despite being smaller and having a simple design. Need to sharpen it.. didn't come very sharp. Overall, a perfect EDC for me.

 

[Ernie1980]

I don't care about the study, fakes are wrong and amount to stealing. As for the knife registration, absolutely not! I too wonder what your direction is with this thread.......
The solution is simple: buy from authorized dealers and trusted forum members. There are endless "armadillo shell hat" ideas that you can pose about getting a fake, but if you are careful and smart you will be fine.

 

[bhyde]

Thanks! What surprised me was how well it grips when cutting despite being smaller and having a simple design. Need to sharpen it.. didn't come very sharp. Overall, a perfect EDC for me.

Glad to hear it

I have had a few smalls over the years..bought one a few months ago and still have it..I guess my preference is the large variants.
Certainly, I am glad that there are people that appreciate all the makers that put their hearts and souls into these tools.