Fred @ Knife Outlet . . . the BAD!

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Jan 20, 2001
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Well, I never thought I would do a "bad" post in GBU . . . until I tried to order a BM 555 from knifeoutlet.com!
I decided to get one and checked some of the sites for prices . . . KO had it for $44.95!!:eek:
I thought that was a great price so tried to use the shopping cart. They had made a mistake and it put a serrated version in the shopping cart when I picked the plain edge. I sent an email to ask if it could be taken care of and got a reply saying it had been fixed and to try agian. I went back to the site and the price had been raised by $10!! I sent an email asking why and got a really short reply about dealer cost. I sent a reply saying that It seemed like bait a switch to take a customer who ran into an error with the version of the knife and wind up changing the price without explaination OR apology . . . not good customer service!
I then got this reply:
Jason, sounds you never make mistakes. You're a lucky person. I make them
all the time.

Fred
Knife Outlet
:confused: :confused:



(Comment about where I eventually purchased the knife removed)
 
Jason, Roger and Kristi are great. But I don't think Fred did you wrong. It looks like there was a mistake in the online catalog, popping up the wrong knife and the wrong price. You brought it to Fred's attention, and he fixed it. Even his response to you was pretty easy-going.

The question came up in another thread recently: no one is obligated to sell at a misprinted price.
 
I've done alot of business with Fred, and have enjoyed the experience every time. Fred has been nothing but professional with all of my orders. I think you just happened to have this one mishap. Don't let that scare you. Fred's a great guy.
 
Jason: Since you choose to attack me let me put some things into perspective for the group. I made a mistake pricing this product on the web site. I did receive three orders at that price and will honor all of them. I did not receive an order from you at any time or at any price. You had seen the mistaken price but not ordered because there were other errors on the database entries and they confused you. When you emailed the following day after I had corrected all the errors (still never having placed an order) you demanded that I sell you the knife at the mistaken price and I refused. You demanded an explanation and I gave it honestly. I also mentioned that I respond to 300 emails per day and can only afford about 10 seconds for each one so they are normally pretty terse. I told you we wouldn't sell the knife to you because it was below our cost. I have no choice with the people who ordered at that price but you didn't order. I probably would have honored your request if you had asked politely. I told you we made a mistake as you quoted above. This apparently is my punishment for not giving you what you asked. I don't run a popularity contest but I do run an honest business. I hate to be called unfair even when it is undeserved and I usually go overboard when I'm accused of unfairness. So here's my offer. You make an apology right here and send me a stamped self addressed envelope. I will send you a check for $10 that you can use to defray the cost of the knife from someone with whom you prefer to do business (not from us.) So can get what you wanted in the first palce. No apology, no deal, though. Take care.
 
Fred,
I "demanded" nothing then nor am I expecting anything now . . . I simply asked why the price had been changed with no explanation other than "Try it now".
It seems that this forum is for expressing good and bad experiences with knife deals. Ours was a bad one . . . that is all.

This is your area to tell about your experiences (Good or Bad) with dealers, sellers, and individuals you've bought, sold, and traded with.

I am sorry that you feel this is an "attack" . . . it is simply an account as the byline for this forum suggests. Nothing more
 
OK Jason,

I'll take it as a rejection of my offer. I assume then that you had no problem with my venting as well. Best of luck to you.
 
You should use this medium for disapproval after ALL OTHER OPTIONS have been tried and failed. You didnt even email him and try to work this out.
I hate to say this, but that aint right...........brother.
I know for a fact Fred is a straight up guy. Tom Mayo
 
Tom old buddy, Jason did email him. I agree with you though, it was a bit premature to post here.

Couple of things stand out here

If you email a retailer and accuse him of "bait and switch" you are implying he has no integrity and you are unlikely to have much of a meaningful conversation after that. No one is going to work with someone that they think questions their honesty. If handled in a little less blunt manner I bet things would have worked out differently. And yes a legit error is not "bait and switch"

Fred you seem to be a "to the point" kind of fellow and I can respect that. However, it can come off as being rude (as commented in various forums in the past) and the appearance of being rude can cost you customers. Your posts here are more of the "take it or leave it" than concilliatory in nature. Offering 10 bucks in exchange for an apology makes you come off as being a little petty. How you conduct your affairs is your own business but do not hide behind the "I'm too busy to be nice" excuse. Get more help....
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
You should use this medium for disapproval after ALL OTHER OPTIONS have been tried and failed. You didnt even email him and try to work this out.
I hate to say this, but that aint right...........brother.
I know for a fact Fred is a straight up guy. Tom Mayo

Tom,
The post indicates that I did send email . . . several in fact. This was a "last option review". Thanks for the positive stuff about Fred . . . I musta just caught a bad day.
 
Thanks for the comments, Dan. I won't post the contents of private emails. But I can assure you I'm not rude to customers. I am quick and to the point. I work 13 and 14 hour days and value my free time so I spend as little time as possible getting things done. If that's interpreted as rude then it's a personal interpretation. I have no intent to be rude. Just efficient. My goal is to get our customers what they want as quickly and inexpensively as I can and I do that pretty well. There are tradeoffs. I could devote more time to writing epistles and jawing with customers but I'd have to serve fewer customers or else increase overhead and prices. Higher prices and fewer customers would certainly ease my work day. I'll consider it. I'm probably getting too old to work at this pace anyway.

I didn't make any rude or personal comments to Jason at all. I didn't count them but I don't think I wrote more than 20 words at all to him until he called me a jerk. I might have written 20 words responding to that email but none of that response was rude either.

If my response to this thread appears rude it was because it really angered me. It wasn't intended to be rude even though you may interpret it that way. It was certainly defensive because I felt I needed to defend myself against an attack. I'll rant a little and then end my involvement with this thread. If you read it you'll thank me for ending it.

The knife cuts both ways. Incidentally, I'm not referring to Jason in any of this rant.

We all know the internet tends to bring out the worst in some people. It provides anonymity and some people say things anonymously that they wouldn't say face to face. You wouldn't believe some of the emails I get. I'll share one with you.

Yesterday, just before I logged on to this forum a customer whose credit card charge had been rejected told us abusively by email that it wasn't OK with him that we didn't ship his order and that he had been inconvenienced by all of this and expected us to ship overnight for free. It was he who had inconvenienced us, actually. His credit card wasn't rejected by us. It was rejected by his bank. We wanted to ship his order as much as he did but the charge was declined for whatever reason. He was rude and unreasonable. I was more than happy to write him a quick response refusing his request and cancelling his order. I made a note in his customer file to refuse any orders from him in the future. Maybe one day he'll run out of people to buy from and change his ways. Not likely. Most customers aren't this way but this one was and it's an example of what I'm talking about. We see a few of these each week.

Also a few people try to steal from us every day. That isn't an overstatement. We average around 3 fraudulent orders per day. Not may slip through but we get ripped off occasionally. We have customers try to return abused products or products they bought elsewhere. Yesterday, as another example, a customer sent us a boot knife he had bought 4 months ago. It had been sharpened (poorly) and showed plenty of wear and the metal portion of the sheath was dented. He wanted his money back. He didn't get his money back but I didn't hit his card for the return shipping costs either so we took a small hit from him. At least I know it won't happen again. Another note in the customer file. I had two NSF checks returned from the bank yesterday as well. Two more that we don't want as customers. So we lost some customers yesterday that we're glad to be rid of. Luckily we had many more new ones that we value.

The point of all this is that the customer has some responsibilities as well. Vendors are people and they react much like customers do to the very same stimuli. The posts that have appeared in this forum about me have not been issues of honesty or integrity. They have been from customers to whom I have reponded in kind and moved on to the next communication at my normally furious pace. These have been people whose communication has been interpreted as aggressive or rude by me in the same manner that you have interpreted my posts here to be rude. If people are reasonable with me, I'm reasonable in return. If people are aggressive with me I'm usually agressive in return. We can consider it a character flaw. I realize there are stronger people on the planet than I am.

The final point, then, is that people should treat their vendors as they want to be treated. Stronger people than me put up with aggressive behavior better than I do but that doesn't mean the aggressive behavior is called for or beneficial regardless of whom someone chooses as a vendor. Businesses need customers and have no incentive to anger them for no reason. My business is no different. We have around 30,000 valued customers and a few hundred former customers who we don't really miss (examples above.) Sure there are some we do miss because we lost them as a result of our mistakes. There is some value in being valued. That's true for a business and that's true for a customer, as well. I told you you would thank me for ending this. Take care.
 
Fred:Thanks for the bit of insite into your business practices.I realize you are in the fast paced internet business.A bunch of folks do not.
They will fall through the cracks.
BTW I have been in business for 35 years.Through a couple of recessions.The PRODUCTIVE will survive.The cliffhangers will not.
 
Fred is one of the online dealers I have bought from before and I won't hesitate to buy from him again.
 
Jay,
You must have looked around and found the knife for .....what 65 bucks or so on other sites?You find it on KOs site for 45 bucks and you say he knocked it up to $55 after he realized it was below his cost.So big deal.......the guys a little rude when replying to his emails.......and then ?????Your post is fine and dandy but come on dude,Fred is not BAD!You accused him of baiting and switch!You still havn`t answered why you said that?Do you think Fred intentionaly marked it that low so he could stick ya?Get real.
I think you owe the guy an appology there
 
And ever since I never purchaced another knife from his company. I spend my money elsewhere. Do the same. There are other companies who are looking for your business, and won't treat you like garbage. Fred, your a wise guy. You treat customers like ****.
 
This sounds like an unfortunate situation all the way around. Jason is a great guy. He is an extremely moral person and not given to idle troublemaking. He would not have posted this if he hadn't perceived that something was amiss. This may be an example of each side having a bit of the truth and the rest being supposition.
David
 
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