Free Speech and Real Lives

M

munk

Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Messages
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I am bringing up this topic as the mods are discussing this behind the scenes. It is actually all of our topic.

When a thread is closed, that removes 'free speech'. I think Bill believed in free speech, I think he believed that we were adults who could work out our problems in a constructive manner.

BigJIm has indicated to the Supermods that he is letting go of any issue with HI forum or us. I am not asking to take up that particular discussion now. But I do want to emphasize that when we percieve attack, or any other negative, we have a right and an expectation of being able to voice a response. Not allowing that would change HI forum to the negative, in my opinion.
What say all of you?

My philosophy is to let people be people, and to only moderate when things are truly out of hand. We have a human dignity, I think a enlightened culture here, that must be deferred to. But we cannot protect our best character by 'over protection'.

What say all of you?


REal place, real people, real lives.



munk
 
I agree. I think mods are here to steer when needed and only lock down a thread as an absolute last resort.

There were times when Uncle Bill let things get quite crazy. Times when I disagreed with him about how far people were allowed to go. but i look back on that now and realize he did the right thing.

My philosophy is to let people be people, and to only moderate when things are truly out of hand. We have a human dignity, I think a enlightened culture here, that must be deferred to. But we cannot protect our best character by 'over protection'
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That covers it well.
 
munk said:
My philosophy is to let people be people, and to only moderate when things are truly out of hand. We have a human dignity, I think a enlightened culture here, that must be deferred to. But we cannot protect our best character by 'over protection'.

What say all of you?
Click to expand...
I say that not only can we not protect our best character by "over protection," we can't develop it. One of the marks of this place is that there are a lot of folks who "get it." Observing how they react to stress and challenges helps the rest of us recognize the same capacity within ourselves.

So yeah, I vote that the mods give us lots of rope.

t.
 
Since you asked, I think you mods should do exactly what you'd do if you were hosting a cookout. Again, speaking only for myself, there isn't enough time or desire in my life to waste reading something excreted by the occasional, intrusive and rude (insert favorite expletive here).

$.02

Stephen
 
Agreed. I think we are all good people here and can handle 99.9% of the troubles that step through the door. The only time i can see locking a thread down is when it results in name calling or threats. Opinions go both ways. I don't think I would go so far as to call someone "wrong" if they had a different point of view than myself. However i will always voice points that I don't agree with in a respectful manner. Sometimes people just need a social peer to give them a heavy hand of reality to show them that the sun, moon, and stars do not revolve around them.
We might be brand loyalists, but we are not "fanboys". We are protective of HI, Yangdu, and each other. We are no more blind followers of our knives than those that collect Buck, or Sebbies, or Spyderco. In my opinion, all of those clans are good guys. Heck, like HI, both Buck and Spyderco have hands on guys right there at the helm. How cool is that? I have never met a group of people that were so uniformly kind and open to all POV that right here in the Cantina halls. I think most any matter that comes up here can be settled with debate, heated though it may become. I will always do my best to be as respectful to the person whom I do not agree with. However, While I will never call you an SOB I reserve the right to call a spade a spade.
My hats off to our Mods. You guys do a good job with each of you bringing a little something to the table.

Jake
 
I think that's a good point Jake: saying what you believe in a respectful way, without resorting to name calling and personal attacks. That has always been and should continue to be a quality this place has.
 
We all gather here to share our opinions, and to listen to this particular set of peoples opinions. I don't want it censured. I like it raw. Before this place changes to suit myself or anyone else I would rather sacrifice my own access here. Keep this place as real and uncensored as possible. We don't want to have to perceive another persons opinions here through some sort of free speach condom that is softening the sharp edges and making that opinion safe for our sensitive ears. You've done well mods, other places the mods do more, some places they do nothing. We have good mods. Don't ajust yourselves at all. Thanks for doing what you do.
 
I'm for freedom of speech and self expression. But, I also respect the authority of our moderators in determining when a dog's gone rabid, or when a dead horse will no longer benefit from additional whipping.

Sarge
 
munk said:
What say all of you?

My philosophy is to let people be people, and to only moderate when things are truly out of hand. We have a human dignity, I think a enlightened culture here, that must be deferred to. But we cannot protect our best character by 'over protection'.

What say all of you?


REal place, real people, real lives.



munk
Click to expand...

I like it raw. Things have a way of running their course and dying out naturally after it's all been said. No need to cut that off prematurely. With a good group like the HI forum there is a certain amount of peer pressure to avoid extremes like blatant name calling, because the futility of that approach is widely recognized. Let's keep it real.:thumbup:
 
bwray said:
With a good group like the HI forum there is a certain amount of peer pressure to avoid extremes like blatant name calling, because the futility of that approach is widely recognized. Let's keep it real.:thumbup:
Click to expand...

I think you've touched on something here. The Cantina is just filled to the brim with + peer pressure:) The gentlemen around here make me strive to be a better person. When i see the amount of tact and resolve some of you guys have, as well as the extension of peace to the most aggrivating of trolls it teaches me that i have much refinement left. I would never do anything to disgrace this place. I believe many others are of the same belief. A very good thing:)

Jake
 
Hmmm...

Seems to me that having multiple moderators is a pretty well-working system of checks and balances. Some seem to be more "lock happy" than others, but honestly, things DO get rediculous sometimes, and that's why there are moderatorS. More than one perspective, more than one agenda... I am largely in favor of letting things run their course, but sometimes, something does need to be done.

I will say this -- and kudos to you, munk, because I have seen you do this quite a few times -- I feel that very often all that is needed from the moderators is the insertion of a wise and level-headed perspective into an irrational and nasty thread. Sometimes, that is enough to put a troublesome issue to rest... and THAT, to my mind, is more effective moderation that locking down the thread.
 
I'm for freedom of speech and self expression. But, I also respect
the authority of our moderators in determining when a dog's gone rabid, or
when a dead horse will no longer benefit from additional whipping.
Click to expand...

Ok. I see your point Sarge. But let me ask you this :what do you do when
one Mod wants it closed and another wants it open? Or when the others
don't weigh in at all?

I think this is why this thread is necessary--to see how people feel about
the direction we have been heading (are headed?)
 
brokenhallelujah said:
...I feel that very often all that is needed from the moderators is the insertion of a wise and level-headed perspective into an irrational and nasty thread. Sometimes, that is enough to put a troublesome issue to rest... and THAT, to my mind, is more effective moderation that locking down the thread.
Click to expand...

MODS! I'm gettin' picked on again!!! WAHHH>>>>>>

I *demand* that this thread be locked down immediately, or...or....or else *I* will no longer post to it.

so there...<pout>

Don't make me go talk to the Supermods either...


Rolling on the floor laughing my ass off.

ps: Jake...you're a better man than I. I'll call folks a SOB, but would prefer to do so in person.
 
I'm a moderator because you guys wanted me to be one. Yangdu wants me to be one. THIS IS OUR FORUM. I will only moderate OUR FORUM.

I think checks and balances are good. I don't want the munk show, the howard show, or the yvsa show, and neither do any of the other mods.


Free speech carries the obligation of responsibility. In our forum we trust ourselves.

Sarge is right in that a mod also must remove the occasional rabid dog, and that doesn't require a vote. That requires good judgement. I don't particularly care for my good judgement, I think God made an awful mistake when He made me, but it is all I have, and with my Friends help, on OUR FORUM, it has been enough for my share of the moderating tasks I recieve. I enjoy it, and enjoy our Cantina immensly. We are doing good stuff here. Rusty and Bill have left, but good stuff continues.


munk
 
Well I do not know how to answer this one.

But this has brought up some memory of the reading that I've come across by an nepalese monk.

When facing a situation....write down your thoughts and feelings.......

Review those thoughts later and you may find that your feelings and thoughts at that moment is actually quite different from the ones you feel now.

I'd guess it says that we shall keep an open mind...........
 
I agree with you Munk. This is an extremely civil forum. Everything usually seems to work itself out because people really seem to respect each others opinions here and don't resort to childish and baseless attacks.
 
I think that the moderators here are doing a good job:thumbup:

One thing that I think helps us here for the most part is we all know each other, sometimes in real life and basically all like each other.:thumbup: My political ideaology is probably difft than about 70% of the people here but I like everybody. Munk and I can argue all day over a couple ounces of difference in khuks but we both have a lot of fun at it:D :thumbup: :D

Edited to add: I keep forgetting to mention how cool MauiRob's avatar is! Is that something you did yourself or found?? It should be a poster!!!!!
 
MauiRob said:
Ok. I see your point Sarge. But let me ask you this :what do you do when
one Mod wants it closed and another wants it open? Or when the others
don't weigh in at all?

I think this is why this thread is necessary--to see how people feel about
the direction we have been heading (are headed?)
Click to expand...

Rob, if you find a rattlesnake in the yard where the kids are playing, you're either going to kill it, or catch it and remove it. Some things are just that clear cut, no reasonable person would have a problem with it. But sometimes things aren't so clear, and it comes down to somebody having to have the guts to make a decision. We are blessed with mods that are intelligent, reasonable, people, and I honestly believe they'd listen to us if we ever thought they acted prematurely or too heavy handed. With the authority of their position comes the responsibility to take action when, in their judgement, it becomes necessary. However, understand that we also have a shared responsibility to police ourselves, and as long as we do that, and keep things within reasonable boundaries of courtesy and decency, the mods can all just kick back and watch the fun. That's the way it ought to be, but sometimes it simply isn't.

For the mods, something I used to tell my knuckleheads; "I'm as nice as you'll let me be, and as mean as you make me be, the choice is yours". ;)

Sarge
 
I think that the moderators handled the last negative post very well.
There always comes a time when a negative post might gain some credibility if it is squashed before replies are allowed. That leaves the accusation without answer. Not a good approach....

The negative vibes hung around long enough, but not so long as to cause serious problems.

There can't be any general rule. Free speech is good, but screaming fire in a crowded theater is not....unless there really is a fire.

None here.
 
I think Jake expressed my views on this better than I could. I hate seeing threads locked down IF they are still allowing a forum for people to communicate without rancor, or too many innuendo driven shots.

I was impressed with the way folks handled themselves for the most part, to what would have started a flame war on most other forums. The spirit of Uncle Bill still lingers here, and that is what makes this place special.

Personally, I have understood for a long time who is the master of the shop directing the creation ot the knives, and can tell his work easily apart from others. I feel badly now for Yangdu that she now has to carefully qualify the DOTD with assistant information.

In any case I don't want to get into the middle of a mod dispute. I heard about the War in Heaven in Sunday School and don't want a reprise on Earth and have to choose sides. :D At the same time I don't think it would be a bad idea for two mods to have to agree before a thread is locked. 99% of all threads that qualify will engender clear agreement I'm sure.

With three mods there would have to be clear agreement among two of them, and if the 3rd disagreed he would just have to agree to go along with the "mod majority."

For now, I'm hoping that no one gets banned, especially someone who has helped enhance the forum over the past few months. I would like to handle this the way I think Uncle Bill would, and that would be to take firm issue with the dishonesty characterization, but to allow the person their opinions and move on, and let the thread die out on their own, as they always do.

Thanks,

Norm
 
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