Freehand sharpening... Maintaining a consistent angle?

For me it was getting a feel for the "right" angle rather than seeing it or measuring it. Does not mean though that the angle is really right. I mean it is clearly possible that my left side of the blade is being sharpened at let's say 22 degrees and the right side at 19 degrees. It seems that I estimate the spine height differently depending of how the knife lays on the stone. I guess it has something to do with light reflections, shadows etc.

What helped me a lot though was actually Murray Carters videos. All you that may have seen the videos, he usually starts with maintaining the primary grind - so the blade is flat on the stone. Grind away and thin the edge and maintain the main geometry. Similar to a convex grind where you have to maintain the whole convex bevel, not just the edge/apex. Otherwise you make the edge angle more obtuse. Largely neglected I think.

Anyway, then he is off to the secondary bevel, the actual cutting edge/apex. I saw him putting down the blade flat on the stone, then lifting it up ever so slightly ("click" 1). If you need a more obtuse angle, lift it up again, ever so slightly (click 2) etc.

Try this. Take you knife, lay it flat on the stone, do one or two "clicks" of spine elevation, start grinding/sharpening in short forth and back motions from heel to tip. Stop, flip the blade, lay it flat on the stone and again, click 1, ..

. Practice that a lot and you will get a feel for it.

Took me a while - still haven't figure it out ...
 
I've been freehand sharpening for only a few years but i've learned to prioritize my hands. One hand holds the handle and focuses on maintaining a consistent angle while the other hand (my weak hand), focuses on the push and pull forces. Work one side long enough to feel a burr, flip, work a burr, up the grit and repeat. When you've reached a desired grit, deburr and cut the shit outta everything until you have to repeat and enjoy.

Totally could be wrong here but I also found doing long, elliptical strokes cuts sharpening time in half because i'm grinding while pushing AND pulling.

I ordained as a Buddhist monk years ago. Freehand sharpening IS meditation, whatever you do it's a spiritually healthy skill to acquire. Practice because you enjoy it, practice because it settles your mind and practice because you're not a machine trusting another machine. Work work work to get what you want and enjoy it when you reach it. Sharpen a knife to sharpen your mind. Buddhism is a philosophy btw.

Don't forget to deburrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
 
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i have a tendency to keep the angle by sliding my knuckles against the sharpening stone as im sharpening the knife.
 
Shortening the length of my pass and switching master control to the fingertips of the off hand made noticeable improvements to my consistency. The real icing on the cake is pre-loading my wrist. Gripping the handle with my right hand, if I'm working the left side of the blade (edge facing away) I roll my wrist forward a bit before settling my grip. This induces a bias toward a more acute angle - I have to exert a little bit of effort to maintain the angle. If I get sloppy or tired the edge will become more acute, not more obtuse.
If working the the right side of the blade and gripping with right hand (edge facing toward me), I'll roll my wrist back before setting my grip. Likewise, a small effort expended to keep edge on angle, if I get tired or sloppy, edge becomes more acute.
 
Strigamort said:
I try to use my off hand as HH described, however, I seem to always have a problem with whichever lubricant I'm using (mostly usp mineral oil) getting on my fingertips which makes it impossible to use them effectively.

In fact, I've even had my fingertips slide over the apex and cut myself.

Still gotta sort that out. :cool:
Click to expand...

When working with oil, it becomes more of a tactile guide than a primary mechanical drive if you get my meaning. Oil keeps it from doing the heavy work due to slippage, but it still calls the shots re motion and angle control.
 
I've really appreciated how feedback from HeavyHanded's Washboard (as per his signature link) has helped me learn how much I wasn't maintaining the consistent angle I thought I was(!), which explains a lot. Using the Washboard even just with plain paper helps me learn how to better orient and "load" my wrists, blade angle to surface, etc. in real-time-- the latter being especially beneficial when on one's own, without someone present to say "No, like this."

Practice is all well and good; practicing the wrong thing, not so good (Hey! I have a feel for it! Uh, why's my edge ripping paper?!"). At least, that's been my experience. :o

~ P.
 
Stop thinking about it so hard. THis is not rocket science or bomb defusing. Relax, and try using the circle method and sharpen by feel. There's a lot of instinct in it, so the more you think the more you mess it up. You can sharpen with a smooth rock out of a stream if you just relax and get the feel right. Lots of practice.
 
I have found knifenuts video to be more helpful with taller blades. Like the chef's knife he is demonstrating with. Heavyhanded's technique with the shorter strokes will help as well, but if your angle tolerance is already way off, it just brings it with in normal range while slowing down grind time. His preloading of the wrist can really hurt if you have wrist problems so I didn't try that for very long. You can also try what wood workers do with chisels and planes. Grinding with the edge closer to parallel then finishing off with an angled stroke. Also, just start taking in all the feed back you get while sharpening. Textile, audible and visual.
 
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I use one of these whether I'm sharpening on a belt or on my DMT. Its a good way to check and see if your free hand is accurate.
orange%20jig%201.jpg
 
Knifenut's technique is, IMHO, a good demonstration of a slightly modified Japanese Stroke. He also details things about his pressure that I think really help a lot. I'm tempted to answer more than just "how do I hold a consistent angle", but I'm going to keep it to that. For me a handful of techniques have really helped me:

1. The Japanese Stroke. Using two hands improved my stability, ESPECIALLY at the front of a long blade. The finger tip pressure at the edge is also super helpful, which leads to...
2. On a knife with a wide-ish bevel, I can *almost* keep the bevel flat on the stone, simply by pressing near the edge with my off hand. That is, I can almost completely take away the hand holding the handle and still have the angle correct on the stone. I call this "feeling the bevel on the stone". It almost seems to "click" into place when I do it properly. I find that overlapping my finger tips slightly onto the stone helps with this feel, as you can tell when the edge it touching the stone, as opposed to when the edge is lifted slightly. This seems simple and it is. But it really helped me.
3. Moving my large body parts while keeping my small body parts still. You certainly want your fingers to be still or "locked" into place. Your wrists should also not move during the sharpening process. What about minimizing elbow and shoulder movement? I find I have pretty good results doing this. It forces me to move my entire body, either at the hips (if seated) or at the ankles/knees (if standing). For me, this really minimizes variations in angle. It's kinda strange looking and isn't suitable for very lengthy sharpening, but it works.

Brian.
 
fervens said:
I have found knifenuts video to be more helpful with taller blades. Like the chef's knife he is demonstrating with. Heavyhanded's technique with the shorter strokes will help as well, but if your angle tolerance is already way off, it just brings it with in normal range while slowing down grind time. His preloading of the wrist can really hurt if you have wrist problems so I didn't try that for very long. You can also try what wood workers do with chisels and planes. Grinding with the edge closer to parallel then finishing off with an angled stroke. Also, just start taking in all the feed back you get while sharpening. Textile, audible and visual.
Click to expand...

You could give it another try only maybe not so exaggerated with the wrist pre-load. Have had multiple wrist surgeries and can manage it, though took a little getting used to.
Am completely sold on this in conjunction with a shorter pass. Pretty much everybody can hold a knife on a stone at a given angle, its when we start to move it around that the wheels fall off (if they're going to), so I wind up keeping it as close to static as possible. Thought it was very interesting that when I previewed some of my videos on fast-forward it looked like I was holding the blade on a belt sander. Generally I move a lot faster than that, but still take off a lot of steel fairly quickly. I really depend on the tactile feedback through my fingertips.
Another aspect is to do most of the guide work with the off hand, mostly because the fingertips of that hand have the most feedback to work from.

[video=youtube;9s8334LgzDU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s8334LgzDU[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03VXUEC5j-w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apLoiggAlA8
 
pertinux said:
I've really appreciated how feedback from HeavyHanded's Washboard (as per his signature link) has helped me learn how much I wasn't maintaining the consistent angle I thought I was(!), which explains a lot. Using the Washboard even just with plain paper helps me learn how to better orient and "load" my wrists, blade angle to surface, etc. in real-time-- the latter being especially beneficial when on one's own, without someone present to say "No, like this."

Practice is all well and good; practicing the wrong thing, not so good (Hey! I have a feel for it! Uh, why's my edge ripping paper?!"). At least, that's been my experience. :o

~ P.
Click to expand...

Definitely agree, washboard helps me immensely!
 
I have been thoroughly helped with all the advice in this thread. I've gone through so many different ways of reprofiling and have determined, for me, the most effective way is freehand. I do less damage to the blade and I've gotten consistent results with polished edges. Three of my Buck knives are now SCREAMING sharp. :)
 
Cheap blades and practice. For cheap knives to work on that you can use I like Rough Rider's you can pick up a multi-blade knife for $5-10 and you will end up working with 440a steel with a decent heat treat on it. As for maintaining angle it's just practice and I use a sharpie to mark up the edge to make sure I am contacting what I want and I check it after every couple passes.
 
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