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Freezing to death

Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
1,755
Lets talk about cold.

At what point does it become a killer for someone sleeping outside?

What does your body do if it starts becoming hypothermic while asleep, do you wake up and have a chance to do anything about it?

I realize that clothing, shelter and fire make a huge difference...but are there any rules of thumb for the dangers of exposure?
 
The first stages of hypothermia will involve intense shivering; this is going to wake you up from your sleep should it occur at that time. It'll feel like you're getting jostled. People who die 'in their sleep' from hypothermia do so because they went to sleep after the initial stages of hypothermia. (Towards the end of the road (near that last stages/death) your body will stop shivering. That's a bad sign.) With the intense shivering will come poor coordination. Because of this, you need to be prepared ahead of time to solve the issue so you don't have to provide fine motor tasks (like working a lighter or striking a match) when you can't even feel your fingers.

Next, the shivering will stop and you'll have mental status changes and confusion. Your muscles will feel rigid, you may become immobile. Soon after you'll probably lose consciousness, then your heart will start beating erratically (an arrhythmia), then you'll die.

It doesn't take dramatically low temps to cause hypothermia if you're not prepared, it just takes the right sum of events. Just a few degrees change in core body temperature can cause radical problems.

The causes are just what you learned in high school chemistry. Radiation, convection, and conduction are the big players. If you're wet or sweaty, you'll lose heat as it evaporates. The ground can suck the heat from your body if not insulated. The wind could help your body lose some. This is why getting protected from the elements and finding insulation (not that hard to do) are key to survival.

If you get this badly off (you shouldn't if you keep your head about you, or get really unlucky), then try to get out of the elements or out of whatever wetness has complicated things. Get dry. Drink something warm and sugary (no fats or proteins, they don't help here). Warm up with a hot canteen near you, or warm rocks, or by a fire. If truly hypothermic, you have to warm yourself slowly or you could go into cardiac arrest (hear stops = bad).

Hope that helps.
 
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I have a Norwegian relative who was posted on the Russian border [way above the arctic circle] while in the army, They slept outside .You just have to learn how to do it.
One thing to be very careful of is condensation , bad for you and your equipment. An artic cabin has two rooms ,one heated where you stay and one unheated for your equipment .
 
I have been in what was probably the last stages of hypothermia, except I did not know what it was at the time. Frostbite to my hands, feet and face, laying on the ground it was one of the most peaceful times of my life, I remember it well! Less that 30 yards to warmth - it did not seem worth the effort of getting up and walking to my outfit.
 
technically it can happen at 97 degrees ambient but seriously it depends on alot of different factors. The important part is to know how to see the signs and compensate for it so you don't get worse.
 
I wrote this several years ago for a hiking forum. I want to disagree with what has been stated about when and at what stage you are hypothermic. I am copying this here not to argue but to maybe generate a little more conversation on the subject.

By definition hypothermia is a lowering of your core body temperature from what is normal. The thing to keep in mind is that all your bodies reactions with respect to hypothermia is core driven. By that I mean, you cannot put your hand on a piece of ice and that alone will cause you to shiver. You might give yourself frostbite but the only way you start shivering is if your core temperature has dropped sufficiently. Shivering is one of the first signs of hypothermia. I have been taught that actually the first is a mental degradation. I know this will sound corny but follow this through. A group of people standing around. One guy standing there shivering and the other says “you look cold?” The guy says “Yeah, its freaking cold out man”. The other says “why don’t you put your hat on?” The shivering guy says “NO I’M OK”. Anyone seen this happen? I know I have. Hell, I’ve done it. Fact is. He is not OK. He is already got a core temperature low enough that his body is responding. It is responding by shivering. This shivering is your bodies way of making your muscles generate heat. This is how the body responds to hypothermia in its first stages. This is when to treat it but his mental degradation is telling him, “NO I’M OK”. He doesn’t recognize how much trouble he is in. This is more than just a warning sign. It is actual hypothermia. It’s just that we see it and ignore it so often many of us don’t recognize it as such. Are you going to die in minutes, hours? This obviously depends on the conditions, but make no mistake you are hypothermic and headed in that direction unless you take corrective action. Put a hat on, change out of wet clothes. Put on extra layers.

From there of course it will get worse if no corrections are made. You experience a loss of fine motor control, if you haven't already, so you find it harder to tie your shoes, change your wet jacket and other simple tasks. This is directly attributable to your extremities being vasoconstricted and shunted, again, core driven. Your hand muscles are receiving less blood so they cannot perform the way they normally do and the way you think they should be performing. Everything takes longer to do and is more of a challenge. Yes you can stop your shivering at this stage (first stage) by force of will.

You are in stage two when you have a loss of gross muscle coordination and at this point you cannot stop shivering. You also suffer from the ‘umbles. They are still conscious but will stumble when they walk, mumble when they talk, and fumble when they attempt to do simple things. You are getting near the point of no return.

End stage consists of unconsciousness and shivering has stopped. The body cannot re-warm itself at this point. It is almost impossible to help someone in the field to and bring them back to consciousness. The body is also building a lot of waste products that cannot be sent back to the core/heart without likely causing the patients death so rewarming should not even be attempted outside of a hospital at this point. The best you can do is to try to keep them from losing more body heat. Change them out of wet clothes, put them in dry clothes and put them in a hypothermia wrap and evacuate them rapidly and treat them very gently to avoid putting them into V-fib.

One other statistic I will leave you with is that any person, who has a core temperature change (up or down) of seven degrees, has a 50/50 chance of surviving.

KR
EMT/Wilderness EMT
 
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If i may ask a Q here. Now we all know that drinking alcohol is bad for you as you end up losing body heat as your blood vessels open up. Now if you have all you need to start a fire and you are at your camp should you drink alcohol to get more blood flowing to the outer body parts. Knowing that you would have heat soon??? Or what about you are shivering very bad should you drink alcohol before you are getting into the sleeping bag with dry cloths or should you just let your body warm up on its own???

Years ago i went backpacking in the high sierra. I got rained on but the rain was freezing cold and then cold gusts of wind picked up. You could actualy feel the cold settling in every time the wind picked up. Now while walking up the mountain i didnt shiver very bad but i did feel my body shakes. It took me close to an hour and a half to get to a place where i could set up camp. At that time i couldnt make a fist for the life of me. So using just the palms of the hands i slowly set up the tent got inside put all the dry cloths on and got inside the bag.. About 3 hours later i felt nice and warm and a a hot cup of tea got me going as if nothing ever happend. I were aware what was happining to me but being me i refused to stop. Yes i know its not smart but that how im even more so when im alone. I have been thinking that maybe i should carry some alcohol with me and before i set up the camp drink it all up.. To get the blood flowing .. On the other side i never drink so i worry that i might get drunk even from a small drink.. What would guys say???


Sasha
 
Stay away from the alcohol. You are simply diverting your bodies' resources, e.g. detoxifying the alcohol in the liver and reducing mental acuity in a cumulative way to what the hypothermia is producing. I love my drink as the next guy, but I can't think of any good reason why you consume it as an actual treatment to a crisis.

Get warm and save the bottle for the good times - you'll enjoy it more.
 
My thought is that it is still not a good idea. It is much easier for your core heat to migrate out to the air from your extremities then to force the hot air to migrate heat from your extremities back to the core, in the open air, in my opinion. In a hot building where the entire ambient temperature is in the 90's then it might be different. Remember, your core temp is 98.6 (average). How hot would all of your exposed skin need to be to get the blood at 98.6 to be going back to your core? The body isn't really designed to work in that fashion. Its designed to heat from the inside out.

Case in point. When doctors warm a hypothermic individual they usually do it with an abdominal lavage from what I have been told. Warm water is pumped at a very controlled temperature and rate into the body cavity. Water has a much higher heat transfer rate then air. 25 times better depending on what you read. So hot air coming into contact with your arms really won't help.

Not to mention all the other issues that could come up. :D
KR
 
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Thanks guys that answers my Q... As for keeping alcohol for later i wont work as i dont like the taste of it and i never drink... Im the guy who got buzzed from eating rum cake... I make an awfull Russian lol..

Sasha
 
best way to warm a hypothermic individual is skin on skin contact. I have always been of the mind that your survival psychology, your will to live, calm reasoning, etc has more to do with your survival than science. If it takes a few swigs from a flask to get you up over a ridge and out of the wind to set up a camp and warm up, so be it. I am by no means a cigarette smoker-usually. But nicotine is a muscle relaxer and has the tendancy to calm the nerves. I lit one up this weekend when I was in a rough spot, some times it just helps get you out of panic mode and into the "this is what I have to do" mode. Plus they stay lit forever and are great for making/transferring fires
 
Most deaths happen within 10 degrees of either side of the freezing point. The reason for this is the chance of being wet and cold at the same time. Wet and cold kills.
Shelter and fire are key.

Skam
 
Wow, thanks to everyone for all the great replies. :thumbup:

... About 3 hours later i felt nice and warm and a a hot cup of tea got me going as if nothing ever happend.


A cup of tea sounds beneficial, it's actually warm, and it's going inside you were you need it.

I wonder if it's really effective or if it just makes you feel better...

...hmm someone needs to go get shivering cold, drink a hot beverage, and tell us if the shivering stops :D
 
A cup of tea sounds beneficial, it's actually warm, and it's going inside you were you need it.

I wonder if it's really effective or if it just makes you feel better...

...hmm someone needs to go get shivering cold, drink a hot beverage, and tell us if the shivering stops :D

I did early this spring... I was in the woods, up about 1500' on a mountain I hunt on, and dressed for mild weather. A surprise (surprise to me, anyway) storm came through, the wind picked up and a heavy, wet snow started falling. I got cold and was shivering deeply.

Luckily, I had a wool watch cap, windbreaker and wool gloves in my daypack. These helped considerably. But I was still miserable and shivering until I stopped, fired up the ghillie kettle and had a big cup of hot tea with sugar. After that, I was comfortable and enjoyed the scenery on my way back to the trailhead.

Stay sharp,
desmobob
 
I have a scrawny old geezer friend who is so stubborn/ornery (and cheap on clothing) that he has made it to stage two at least twice (probably three times) in the last 20 years. I usually apply hot beverages while placing him in my truck with the heater at max. That gets him to the point where he can speak and move his hands/fingers again.

He will achieve stage two by refusing to use additional insulation even when repeatedly offered to him. Then again, he survived the Battle of the the Bulge so it's clearly very hard to kill him with cold.

DancesWithKnives
 
This may not help much, but in winter, i bring along Therapads sized for the lower back. 1 self heating pad stays very warm for up to 8-10 hours plus. Having it under your winter clothing traps the heat. 6 packs of these, enough for a weekend winter trip, take up the space of a roll of teepee. Any little bit helps.
http://www.thermacare.com/products-back-hip.aspx
 
It'd take an awful strange situation for someone to actually "freeze to death." Most situations I can think of, they'd die of hypothermia (core temperature dropping, as mentioned above) long before they actually froze.

And it can happen at surprisingly warm temperatures. It's a mix of current physical condition, clothing, and current environmental condition.
 
Stay away from the alcohol. You are simply diverting your bodies' resources, e.g. detoxifying the alcohol in the liver and reducing mental acuity in a cumulative way to what the hypothermia is producing. I love my drink as the next guy, but I can't think of any good reason why you consume it as an actual treatment to a crisis.

Get warm and save the bottle for the good times - you'll enjoy it more.

Good advice. Alcohol does two bad things and two good things.

The Bad:

1) Alcohol dilates your peripheral blood vessels so you end up losing more body heat.
2) Alcohol acts as a diuretic, so you lose fluids more quickly. Fluid loss reduces blood volume and promotes frostbite.

The Good:

1) Alcohol is a source of calories you can metabolize to create heat.
2) Alcohol taken in sufficient quantities will reduce your cognitive functioning and awareness and hasten your death in a fairly comfortable, unconscious way.


I was just reviewing a case where a young man drank a little too much and wandered out into the cold. He passed out and was discovered dead the following day. Cause of death: hypothermia.


 
This may not help much, but in winter, i bring along Therapads sized for the lower back. 1 self heating pad stays very warm for up to 8-10 hours plus. Having it under your winter clothing traps the heat. 6 packs of these, enough for a weekend winter trip, take up the space of a roll of teepee. Any little bit helps.
http://www.thermacare.com/products-back-hip.aspx

I have one of those chemical hand warmers in my belt pouch PSK. Those things pack a surprising punch...I figure if I ever stuck out in the cold I can put it inside my heatsheats bivy.
 
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