From Plow to Sword

JTknives

JTknives

Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
8,651
Being that I watch forged in fire like a crazy fool, not saying that your a fool for watching it I'm saying I freaking love the show (as entertainment) . Any way where was I oh yes I was talking about today's adventure. Today I went into the shop to do somthing completely diffrent then what I left the shop with. I have a few cultivator tine springs sitting under my bench and when thy caught my eye I knew what I was going to do today. I have always wondered how my hammer skill would fair at somthing sword size. This is why I mentioned forged in fire, it seams like most final challenges are somthing large and sword like. This is one ression I have not put in to be on the show. So today I felt I had the energy and drive to take a stab at it. My goal was to make an arming sword or also known as a knights or knightly sword. And to make it more fun I decided to use the "plow" steel as a kinda biblical reference to Joel 3:10. So any way everything seamed to go real good and I had a lot of fun. The tricky part was getting this curled up spring stright. Ended up not to bad once I got it started and could get more then just the tip in the forge. Once stright I forged the point to the general shape I wanted. Then onto the tang to get that shaped. Once that was done I worked the edge bevels from the tang to the point creating a nice taper. I found out quick that hammer blows needed to be balanced on both edges to keep such a long blade stright. Lots of eye balling and heating small sections with gentle hammering and the blade came out better then I thought it would. So I am rather happy with the results but am a bit concerned with the heat treating. I'm going to run my forge verticle and hang the blade so I can keep it as stright as possible while moving it back and forth to heat evenly. But this brings us to the quench. I have no idea what steel this is. I have 2 options, A: treat it as 5160 or B: treat it like a 10xx steel. I know from reading that "plow steel" is 10xx but I don't know if this falls into this category. So any advise on this would be great, thanks.

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I'm loving the biblical reference! Now you'll have to get a pruning hook to make a spear out of. ;)

Looks great so far. Really looking forward to how this one finishes out. Nice work Jared.
 
Nice!

If I was you, I'd experiment: take two pieces of the same type of spring, and HT both of them the two different ways, then see which one is better.
 
I have made several long blades from identical cultivator springs. They worked as if they were 1090ish steel. Use a basic 10XX recipe and you should get good results. I have four of so of them still hanging on a post in the smithy. Might have to pull one off the nail and make a sword.

I just pump swords through the forge horizontal and quench in a 6" round quench tank made from pipe. You need lots of oil and space around it for a sword. Straighten right out of the quench, and again as needed during the second temper.
 
Classic farm steel is supposed to be 1080. Have a copy of a paper somewhere on using vanadium in very low concentrations for grain refinement in early "standard 10xx" steels. Henry Ford was one of the first to apply the idea on a large scale. Have always wanted to have some tests done :)

Great looking sword, shape is excellent.
 
Thanks guys for the help. I was surprised how easy the steel worked under the hammer. Ok so quenching in a 6" pipe that's long enough for the blade got ya. Now that's a lot of oil and the only oil that I have for 10xx steel and can get more of in that amount is canola oil. Hum I just did the math and a 6" X 40" pipe holds just under 5 gal, I got that much oil right now but no pipe. I would love to use a steel pipe but have no idea where I would find somthing like that. You know what just dawned on me I have nothing big enough to temper this sword in facepalm. Might have to get creative with this one. Was thinking to try and stick the blade in the oven at an angle with point in the bottom right rear and the tang sticking out of the oven. I just tryied it and it fits. Well the blade fits inside the oven with some of the tang. So now I need to seal up the opening in the door with somthing. Our oven is a nice new convection oven so has a fan and circulates the air so it's even in temp or so that's the theory. Now my last question is fullering, I have never done a fuller to this extent befor. I have done small fullers on knife blades using a mill but I no longer have access to a mill so I'm wondering about it. My thought was grind the edge bevels and then file or grind the ridge down so it's flat and just under the fuller width I want. Then use my 2" wheel on my KMG using a rest and drawing the blade across the rest paying attention to the blade taper so the fuller stays centered. part of me is saying don't fuller because your going to mess it up but the other part is saying hell yah fuller it we need to drop weight and what's a sword without a fuller. I have learned to fight that small voice holding me back from trying to go beyond my comfort zone. So any tips on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys
 
I tempered a leaf spring sword with a tiger torch using the old color method. Same reason, it was way too long to fit in my oven. Took it slowly to an even bronze/purple color........3 times. Tested the heck out of it and it was extremely tough. You could use any heat source......propane stove burner works, just go slow.
Darcy:)
 
Well did a little testing and I'm surprised. I cut off 2 strips and ground the surfaces on the disk grinder. I water quenched one and the other I oil quenched with AAA (oil for 5160). I heated to non mag and zero soak time. The water quench caused a lot of cracking, one side has stright cracks and the other side had weird circle cracks. The slow oil quench had zero cracks. I went back to the disk grinder and ground up both surfaces and went to the hardness tester. The cracked one measured around 64rc which I expected but hot damn the oil quenched measured the same. So then went out to the shop and busted them and both broke very easy with a soft whack from a hammer. The grain size is large by my defanition but that I can refine. Here are the pictures of the coupons.

Bottom one is the oil quenched and top is the water
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Here is a good view of the bad cracked side.
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Here is the thy are busted. Left is oil and right is water
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Here is a spark test I did comparing to 5160

This is the plow steel
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And here is known 5160
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So after the testing everything is as clear as mud lol
 
Well started the grinding today and wow it's tough keeping everything stright-ish. I finly had to work small sections and once that was flat then move to the next section but start at the previous flat section to establish location.

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I have to say that THIS THREAD IS AWESOME! This is the reason I come here a few times a day. I am so inspired by the things that you all do, that I need (dearly need) guidance on, in my journey to some day be able to say I am a "Knife Maker." It's a long time away but I am enjoying the journey, greatly.

Thank you for the inspiration.

Jeff W. Zimba
 
That is looking really awesome JT.

And I enjoyed reading about your comparative testing on the steel too. I have a thing for using old farm steel. Just makes me happy :)
 
Metalhead0483 said:
That is looking really awesome JT.

And I enjoyed reading about your comparative testing on the steel too. I have a thing for using old farm steel. Just makes me happy :)
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I get that. Mine is old files. I love to start with a rusty, dull file and bring it back to life as a beautiful knife. I always try to keep the original markings on it, visible, just for some extra personality. Leaving some teeth exposed at the top gives them character as well and they are immediately identifiable.

Jeff Z
 
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