Frustrated!

A

Alcoholiday

Joined
Jun 25, 2012
Messages
42
Ok so recently I retired my 17 year old Lansky sharpening system, and after doing a lot of research on this forum, I purchased a DMT Magna-Guide setup, which includes C,F,EF & EEF Diafold hones. I also purchased an EC Diafold hone and 1, 3 & 6 micron DMT Diapaste separately. I have been using these items for about 5 days now, and have sharpened 5 or 6 knives so far. A few of the knives were on the cheap end of the spectrum, and had blades made of cheaper steel, however I also sharpened a Benchmade Auto in 154CM and my own Microtech L.U.D.T in S30V. The problem is, I haven't been able to get any of the knives up to my standard of sharpness like I could with the Lansky.

Obviously I am not new to sharpening, and I understand all the concepts involved. Other than the new DMT hones in place of the old Lansky hones, nothing has changed. I am still using my Lansky angle, and my technique is still the same, yet the more knives I sharpen, the more frustrated I get, because I know the DMT hones should be getting knives way sharper.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Perhaps I should be doing something different with the DMT hones that I am unaware of? Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks!
 
I will be watching this thread with curiosity. I also have the DMT set up you purchased (except for the pastes) because it seemed like a no brainer. However, after the few times I have tried to sharpen knives with this setup, I end up going to my Sharpmaker to "fix" the job.
 
surlyman said:
I will be watching this thread with curiosity. I also have the DMT set up you purchased (except for the pastes) because it seemed like a no brainer. However, after the few times I have tried to sharpen knives with this setup, I end up going to my Sharpmaker to "fix" the job.
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Exactly. I really had high hopes for the DMT hones, based on what I read here, so I am hoping that maybe there is something I missed along the way. I really don't want to be disappointed with their performance, and as far as I can tell, I shouldn't be, but time will tell.
 
what kind of knife are you working on?? I make my own sharpners and I have been useing it for 15+ years. I get my kershaw razor sharp.
 
I have DMT equipment and it's what changed my luck. Now I am freehanding. The DMT stones are fantastic. I suspect the guided system is the culprit.
 
Hmm... if you are using the same angles, you might be using too much pressure. Diamonds cut very fast and aggressively. Maybe try lightening the pressure. That's just a guess.
 
Use sharpie trick to see if the edge being hone at all, perhaps the additional thickness of dmt diafold on top of lansky lowered the bevel angle.
 
HoosierQ said:
I have DMT equipment and it's what changed my luck. Now I am freehanding. The DMT stones are fantastic. I suspect the guided system is the culprit.
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If I can't find a solution to the problem then I may end up selling all of it, investing in some bench stones, and learning to freehand. That's how I am feeling right now.
 
HoosierQ said:
I have DMT equipment and it's what changed my luck. Now I am freehanding. The DMT stones are fantastic. I suspect the guided system is the culprit.
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Thats what i think to never had any luck with the guided system but have had great results freehanding just wish i would have bought bench stones instead live and learn .
 
Light, LIGHT pressure. Also be extra-sure to get that wire edge off, the diamonds cut faster, and I think it's a little easier to raise the burr with the diamond.

Did I mention the light pressure?
 
1. LIGHT pressure (always). This is especially important when sharpening softer & simpler steels (carbon steel, and low/mid-range stainless) on diamond hones, because they'll scrub the burr off in a single pass. Need to go very, very light when getting close to the apex, and inspect every 2 or 3 passes for the burr. It's very easy to finish short of the apex, so make absolutely sure you're getting there with the very first hone.
2. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE the blade isn't moving in the clamp. The blade's sides should be flush & tight to the inside faces of the clamp; that's the only way the clamp can get sufficient grip to securely hold the blade. Shouldn't see any light shining through gaps between the clamp & blade. If the blade pivots up/down, or slips inside the clamp, all bets are off. This applies to all clamped systems. Loose or incorrect clamp setup is usually the culprit, especially when still trying to learn the 'new' system. And relating to point #1 above (light pressure), leaning too hard into the hone will likely make the blade move/pivot/slip in the clamp.
3. Use a magnifier under bright light to make sure you're fully apexing the edge (look for the burr). This can also show you if there's movement of the blade in the clamp, if you see multiple bevels on your edge.

The Aligner/Magna-Guide/Dia-Fold setup can and will produce excellent edges, so long as the clamp is set up correctly on the blade, and the edge gets fully apexed.
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
1. LIGHT pressure (always). This is especially important when sharpening softer & simpler steels (carbon steel, and low/mid-range stainless) on diamond hones, because they'll scrub the burr off in a single pass. Need to go very, very light when getting close to the apex, and inspect every 2 or 3 passes for the burr. It's very easy to finish short of the apex, so make absolutely sure you're getting there with the very first hone.
2. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE the blade isn't moving in the clamp. The blade's sides should be flush & tight to the inside faces of the clamp; that's the only way the clamp can get sufficient grip to securely hold the blade. Shouldn't see any light shining through gaps between the clamp & blade. If the blade pivots up/down, or slips inside the clamp, all bets are off. This applies to all clamped systems. Loose or incorrect clamp setup is usually the culprit, especially when still trying to learn the 'new' system. And relating to point #1 above (light pressure), leaning too hard into the hone will likely make the blade move/pivot/slip in the clamp.
3. Use a magnifier under bright light to make sure you're fully apexing the edge (look for the burr). This can also show you if there's movement of the blade in the clamp, if you see multiple bevels on your edge.

The Aligner/Magna-Guide/Dia-Fold setup can and will produce excellent edges, so long as the clamp is set up correctly on the blade, and the edge gets fully apexed.
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These are excellent tips. I also had trouble with my DMT aligner system when I first got it. For me the biggest issue was #2 making sure that my blade was properly clamped in the guide. You need to carefully adjust screw on the clamp to fit the size of your blade, this means making sure that there is enough space that each half of the clamp rests fully against the blade. Once I realized that my blades were moving in the clamp, I started paying much closer attention to how I placed the knife in the clamp and I immediately got MUCH better results.

The aligner clamp is plastic so it can flex and this allows you to clamp the knife in an unstable position so you gotta pay extra attention to this. After you have the blade completely secure in the clamp, then you can move on to sharpening using light pressure, I usually decrease pressure as I move up in grit and by the time I get to EEF I have a well apexed, refined edge that will last a long time.

Another thing that had me frustrated for some time was that I was still getting a very small burr at the end of my routine. The way I solved this was to do a single pass on each side for 5-10 repetitions switching sides each swipe, this way I am sure that I am not creating another burr. After this last step, I get an edge the I am very happy with, it lasts a long time and maintaining the edge is as simple as doing 5 minutes of work with the EF and EEF stone in the clamp every once in a while.

I do strop, but I feel like with my uses a stone is required because I end up using my knife for food and ceramic plates really kill an edge fast.
 
Alcoholiday said:
(...)I am still using my Lansky angle, and my technique is still the same, yet the more knives I sharpen, the more frustrated I get, because I know the DMT hones should be getting knives way sharper.

Can anyone offer any suggestions? Perhaps I should be doing something different with the DMT hones that I am unaware of? Has anyone had a similar experience? Thanks!
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Didn't notice the above highlighted point prior to my earlier reply. If I understand this correctly, you're still using your old Lansky clamp with the new DMT hones & Magna-Guide rod? If so, that might be another 'gotcha' in your setup. If you're assuming the DMT hones are operating at exactly the same angle, because you're using the same old (Lansky) clamp at the same marked setting as before, that assumption would be incorrect.

The actual angle at the edge won't quite be the same, if you're now using different hones (DMT Dia-Folds + Magna-Guide) in the Lansky clamp. There's a little bit of height offset, between the rod & hone on the Magna-Guide. It's small, but still enough to change the angle at which the hone meets the edge of the blade. Ordinarily, the Lansky rod & hone should be set up with the rod in the same plane as the face of the Lansky hone. This is usually done by setting both on a flat surface, and tightening the rod to the hone while both are flush to that flat surface. This isn't possible with the DMT Magna-Guide, because the rod's position, relative to the face of the hone, is fixed in place and non-adjustable. The rod will be in a plane slightly higher than the hone. So, if the DMT's Magna-Guide rod (by itself) were held at the exact same angle as the Lansky rod & hone, the end of the DMT hone (which is in a lower plane) would collide with the edge of the blade. To avoid that, the hone must be 'lifted' above the edge, which will then (obviously) change the angle of the guide rod, and therefore the hone along with it. The net result would be that the DMT hone would be riding at a shallower (more acute) angle, and likely only contacting the shoulders of the pre-existing bevel. In order to apex the edge this way, the entire bevel would have to be ground down (reprofiled, in other words) until the edge is apexed once again.

The only sure way to make certain you're operating at exactly the same angle with both setups, is to mark your bevels beforehand, with a Sharpie or other ink, and make a few light passes over the edge with your new hones, to see where the ink comes off. Adjust the blade edge's position in the clamp, either further away from, or closer to, the front of the clamp, until the ink comes off uniformly across the full width of the bevel (edge to shoulder). This would indicate that the hone is properly flush to the existing edge bevel.
 
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OwE called it with #3

Most of the time a new user will give up early not fully reaching the apex between the sharpened bevel planes. Bringing the two bevel planes to a apex is your most important goal when trying to make a dull object sharp. The initial grinding with a coarse hone is the point in which this happens.

By the time you finish with the Coarse hone the edge should fling hairs from your arm and cleanly slice paper, if not you have done something wrong.
 
I made my own knife sharpner. all you have to do is just pull the knife threw it. it sharpens both sides at the same time. I have sharpened the cheap china knifes and the very good usa made ones too.
 
richard thurman said:
I made my own knife sharpner. all you have to do is just pull the knife threw it. it sharpens both sides at the same time. I have sharpened the cheap china knifes and the very good usa made ones too.
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I keep hearing of this sharpener but have never seen it. Got any pictures?
 
Make sure the blade is clamped straight, if the blade is cocked in the clamp or leaning to one side it can mess things up.
 
My initial thought is that the angle has changed. Something about the guides is not matching the original angles.

Lansky angles don't really give you an actual angle, they give you a consistent angle. It may not be an actual 17, 20, 25, 30 degrees.

I found, over the years, that some of my guides became tweaked. I tended to use too much pressure!

I bet that the new sticks are not giving you the exact angle you had on your lanskey guides.


You, as a veteran of the lansky system, probably already know this, but if you are not getting the very apex of the edge, all you are doing is prettying up the shoulder.


I suggest taking one of you least favorite knives and running it though the sets on a steeper angle. If it is simply that the angle is not the same, so you are shoulder sharpening, you should be able to tell by taking one through at a steeper angle (to make sure you are actually getting the apex).




Edit: I see OWE beat me to it.
 
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