full bevel grind or hollow grind?

You need to look at more than the primary grind. Unless the knives have similar edge profiles, angle and thickness, this will tend to dominate cutting performance far more than the primary grind. It also depends on what you are cutting, I have a number of 1/16" blades with high hollow grinds which slice soft media very well, but a 1/8" full flat or convex blade will rough hard woods to shape much faster. Pretty much all of the blades I carry cut very well because if they don't I just regrind them until they do. Without modification, in general Spyderco is very high, as are Opinels and Mora's.

-Cliff
 
Cliff I’m really worried about you. You’ve become more and more argumentive over the last few years. Your lack of basic understanding is troubling. You tend to argue irrelevant points, change variables to support your arguments, and needlessly argue basic facts. You should really try to understand peoples posts instead of looking for something to argue about in them, you just may learn something. It is kind of entertaining to see you argue both sides of a subject but I really don’t think it’s very healthy for you. Try enjoying the forums instead of arguing for a while you may just find you learn something.
Back to the subject basically, not sure how much I need to define for everyone here, but all things equal a convex grind is thicker than a flat grind, and flat is thicker than hollow. For most general tasks thinner will cut better.
 
Hollow grinds are good for shallow slicing. They have less material right behind the final bevel, so for shallow slicing they have less drag. As the knife slices deeper, the amount of drag increases exponentially. Hence, hollow grinds are good for skinning, or cutting packing tape. They are less good for cutting the front side of a box off or cutting a piece of styrofoam in half.

Convex grinds have more material behind the edge. They are stronger but not as good at slicing. Convex grinds tend to be better for chopping or cutting which requires a most robust edge.

Flat grinds are basically in between. They offer more strength than a hollow grind but less than a convex grind. They slice better than a convex grind, but not as well (at shallow slicing) as hollow grinds. Because the increase in drag is liner, and the primary grind meets the material being cut at a more glancing angle, flat grinds are better than hollow grinds at deep cutting, such as cutting styrofoam in half.

They each have pros and cons. One is not better than the other. These grinds also have a lot of variation within each type, so what I have given above are just generalizations. A very thick flat ground knife will not slice as well as a very thin convex grind. There are some very robust hollow ground knives, and some very weak convex and flat ground knives. Each knife should be judged on its own merit- the type of grind it has should only be used to give you a basic idea of what it excels at.
 
db said:
... not sure how much I need to define for everyone here, but all things equal a convex grind is thicker than a flat grind, and flat is thicker than hollow.
Click to expand...

That is the point, you don't understand what needs to be defined and it is leading to the latter two misconceptions and promotion of myths. It is in general a fairly popular misconception however as of late I have seen more and more people note that curvature is secondary to cross section, gud_4u, kel_aa, etc., so the myth is dying, slowly, but it is dying. Saying a convex grind is thicker than a hollow grind it like saying a circle is larger than a square. Most people would realize the latter proposal is nonsense because there is a very basic quantity not being defined, it is the same thing when comparing curvatures.

-Cliff
 
db said:
Good question :) it was an atempt to cover my a$$.
Click to expand...

valiant effort, :thumbup: :D

anywho, I like flat grinds, for looks as much as anything. They're lousy for using in any damn sharpening systems though. I like working on my freehand though.
 
Phil Wilson does flat grind mods, I don't know if he does it on a commercial basis, but you could ask him. If you are having trouble sharpening a knife with a flat grind then send it to him. When you get it back I will guarantee that you will be able to sharpen it very easily on any sharpening system.

-Cliff
 
oh, it's not a specific knife; it's that the clamp systems and Edgepro seem to work better with blade flats

I haven't used either in a long time now, anyway
 
Yes, this is a known problem with the platform rigs, many use wedges and similar to compensate.

-Cliff
 
ok ok ok, how about just simplify this--no more arguing.

just look at my pic on the first post. which one slices better? just say "right one" or "left one."


and which grind do you prefer? we're talking cutting ability, aesthetics, durability, all things considered. "right one" or "left one."

haha
 
Midget said:
ok ok ok, how about just simplify this--no more arguing.

just look at my pic on the first post. which one slices better? just say "right one" or "left one."


and which grind do you prefer? we're talking cutting ability, aesthetics, durability, all things considered. "right one" or "left one."

haha
Click to expand...
What type of slicing do you mean?

Hair said:
Hollow grinds are good for shallow slicing. They have less material right behind the final bevel, so for shallow slicing they have less drag. As the knife slices deeper, the amount of drag increases exponentially. Hence, hollow grinds are good for skinning, or cutting packing tape. They are less good for cutting the front side of a box off or cutting a piece of styrofoam in half.

Convex grinds have more material behind the edge. They are stronger but not as good at slicing. Convex grinds tend to be better for chopping or cutting which requires a most robust edge.

Flat grinds are basically in between. They offer more strength than a hollow grind but less than a convex grind. They slice better than a convex grind, but not as well (at shallow slicing) as hollow grinds. Because the increase in drag is liner, and the primary grind meets the material being cut at a more glancing angle, flat grinds are better than hollow grinds at deep cutting, such as cutting styrofoam in half.

They each have pros and cons. One is not better than the other. These grinds also have a lot of variation within each type, so what I have given above are just generalizations. A very thick flat ground knife will not slice as well as a very thin convex grind. There are some very robust hollow ground knives, and some very weak convex and flat ground knives. Each knife should be judged on its own merit- the type of grind it has should only be used to give you a basic idea of what it excels at.
Click to expand...
 
There is alot more to slicing performance than just the grind, so while I do prefer a hollow-grind overall, I think the knife on the right (with the flat-grind) would perform better.

The reason I think this way is because Strider knives are abit on the thick side and I think this particular knife (the one on the left) has too abrute and too deep a hollow before hitting the swedge (I hope you understand what I'm saying).
And the swedge itself takes up more of the blade than I would prefer as well.
Strider probably did this for added strength, but I think it would compromised the actual cutting performance.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
It is difficult to say which one will cut better because this is very critical on the edge thickness and width and there is no way to tell this from the picture. Assuming this is similar for both then the hollow ground blade likely keeps the blade thinner early and thus will do some shallow work better. If you are cutting something of a significant portion of the blade width then the flat grind will start to pull ahead. Hollow grinds of that type can also wedge on materials and the thinner grind can actually reduce cutting ability.

If I just had to pick blind in general I would bet the flat ground one to be more efficient. This is more to do with sabre vs primary grinds and how Strider grinds their hollows than the actual intrinsic abilities of hollow vs flat grinds. If you get the knife and you don't like its cutting ability but the other aspects are strong there are a lot of people who do aftermarket blade modifications and in general they are not overly expensive. Krein does really nice hollow grinds, Wilson does really efficient flat grinds, STR could likely reshape either blade, etc. .

-Cliff
 
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